[Mainia1]

I will assume this post was directed at me, I do have to add my detonation is not 100% of the time with 87 octane, on full boost WFO runs I would get it 10% of the time. I grew up in a street racer group of guys building race motor/street cars, we would set timing to our detonation or lack of. Then on autocross days we would get AV gas and tune to that and then back down again on low octane pump gas.

The average person is not going to hear what I am hearing. I have the ability to hear stuff like that. I had a buddy of mine who I grew up with that was in our car group and he can hear slight detonation too, my wife hears nothing. I like the fact I am able to kill the detonation with 93 octane because I know I am at a max timing spot for the motor. If you never hear detonation with 87 octane with this motor's compression ratio and high boost at 1,700 rpm you are detuned in my opinion.

Every ECU and sensors has a plus or minus spread in it's algorithm and sensor voltage that is send back to the ECU. I take this as mine is happily on the plus side.



.

I also have to add, I know that the ECU pulls back timing when it hears detonation. But as I see with mine it doesn't always catch it right away. When I notice it I back off and push the throttle right back again and it is gone. So on the second try, we could say the sensor picked it up and pulled back on the second try since it was 1 second after the "pull off" or so it seems if we can simplify the description of the event to it's most simple form description.



.

 

[JR KONA]

Hyundai suggests otherwise.. using premium is a waste since the car is designed and tuned for regular.. it does not take advantage of timing for higher octane fuels.. also adding fuel injector cleaner that often is totally unnecessary.. there’s plenty of detergents already in the fuel.. again.. according to Hyundai.. but what do they know ..

Well I know what works in the Kona well. Detergents depend upon if you're using top tier fuel all the time. If you want to keep your fuel injectors and intake valves clean, then utilize a fuel additive.

Frankly I'm not concerned with what Hyundai says, regarding fuel. Dealers do add a fuel additive every 6000 miles during services, re-labeled (Chevron Techron) as a matter of fact. They will also recommend a fuel injection cleaning at around 25K.

It is and was a suggestion and you're welcome to do what ever your little hearts desire. The additional cost per tank full, is nominal.

From my experience with high compression GDI's, premium is always the better option. We ran nothing but premium in our Genesis G80 5.0 @11:5.1 and got exceptional fuel mileage in combined traffic of 26-28 mpg. We are running premium in the N, which is required and the Accent. Both are getting exceptional mileage and are under 200 miles from new. The Accent on winter blend is averaging 37 mpg and is tight as Dicks hatband right now.:wink:

My sons Kia Rio 1.6 Gamma N/A with 26K miles is averaging 34 on regular in comparison. So once again, the above is a suggestion. You can do what you think is right for you. I'll continue to do what works for us.:smile:

Note: I apologize, I did say the Kona has an 11:1 compressions and I stand corrected. I was thinking about our Genesis when I commented. However any 10.0:1 compression ratio is able to run high test fuel, which burn slower than regular grades of fuel. High test burns more efficiently at any compression ratio from 10.0:1 and above. Add a turbocharger which increases combustion temps and it becomes an even more acceptable fuel. This has been common knowledge for decade among hot-rodders, engine builders, racing teams of all kinds, as well as airplane engine manufactures as well. I've commented about this before in other threads. Thanks Mania1 for reminding me.:wink:

Blessings and Peace

 

[JR KONA]

No motor mind, but if your engine is pinging, it has issues ! OEM somehow is messed up, sensor, computer, program, something ! Dealership needs to fix it, not your idea of higher octane and injector cleaner; to me this just gives them more reason to void a warranty issue down the road. Not arguing your points and facts, but it is not the fix, has to be control system of fuel. Ping to me is excessive fuel ? If so, it is a problem. Best of luck.

Ham too low a grade fuel or octane can and will cause pinging and detonation. Quality of fuel will do this also. ECU's work within specific designed maps and fuel tables. They do not have a learning capacity. If you are outside those parameters, it only has the ability to adjust within the specific parameters which are loaded in the ECU.

Countless times, I've heard new vehicles pinging and detonating because of non top tier regular fuel use. It's normally when traveling uphill on mountain roads under load. It happens allot out here at altitude and people just aren't aware. The fastest cure to eliminate it, is to increase the grade and octane of the fuel. Read a little about pinging and detonation, then just be aware of it, especially under load (under acceleration) towing or not.

Blessings and Peace

 

[DJkona]

I also have to add, I know that the ECU pulls back timing when it hears detonation. But as I see with mine it doesn't always catch it right away. When I notice it I back off and push the throttle right back again and it is gone. So on the second try, we could say the sensor picked it up and pulled back on the second try since it was 1 second after the "pull off" or so it seems if we can simplify the description of the event to it's most simple form description.
.

It may not be detonation your hearing. Funny thing about GDI engines, fuel can be injected into the cylinder at any time. Sometimes on the intake stoke, and sometimes on the compression stroke or even multiple injections during the same firing event. The ECU does a couple of things, it can advance or retard the timing, it can change the timing of fuel injection, it can change the time the injector is open, and can change the lift pump pulse width modulation to vary output pressure, as well as changing the signal for the high pressure pumps pwm by way of the solenoid on the side of the high pressure pump. One of the oddities is that lack of a fuel temp sensor in the lift pump, especially odd for a vehicle without a return line.

 

[Bad~Papa]

Well I know what works in the Kona well.

LOL... of course you do... you have fun with that and your anecdotal information..

Meanwhile... I will use the fuel the car was designed to use, regular... I prefer not to waste resources and time
On additives that aren’t needed.. They have their place and use.. but certainly not the way you described..

 

[Bad~Papa]

It may not be detonation your hearing. Funny thing about GDI engines, fuel can be injected into the cylinder at any time. Sometimes on the intake stoke, and sometimes on the compression stroke or even multiple injections during the same firing event. The ECU does a couple of things, it can advance or retard the timing, it can change the timing of fuel injection, it can change the time the injector is open, and can change the lift pump pulse width modulation to vary output pressure, as well as changing the signal for the high pressure pumps pwm by way of the solenoid on the side of the high pressure pump. One of the oddities is that lack of a fuel temp sensor in the lift pump, especially odd for a vehicle without a return line.

That control over the injectors, coupled with the sensors in the block designed to detect knock, is how knock is
Eliminated.. a slight ping is different from a knock as well. The engine is at its peak efficiency just before it pings..
A slight ping is not the same as detonation.. I hear some odd noises between the DCT operation and all the valves and solenoid operation of the variable intake runners, egr system, etc.. from time to time.. but all healthy sounds.. and
Not a hint of knock or ping.. good stuff! Some people on here need to put a bit of faith in the engineers and the systems in place to protect the engine...

 

[JR KONA]

LOL... of course you do... you have fun with that and your anecdotal information..

Meanwhile... I will use the fuel the car was designed to use, regular... I prefer not to waste resources and time
On additives that aren’t needed.. They have their place and use.. but certainly not the way you described..

Yes, you must be absolutely right. Whatever you say has got to be correct, you seem to be all knowing. Have fun with that.:wink:

What was that you said about being all knowing...... Looks like it came back home to rest.:wink:

LOL... of course you do... you have fun with that and your anecdotal information..

Meanwhile... I will use the fuel the car was designed to use, regular... I prefer not to waste resources and time
On additives that aren’t needed.. They have their place and use.. but certainly not the way you described..

Yes, you must be absolutely right. Whatever you say has got to be correct, you seem to be all knowing. Have fun with that.:wink:

What was that you said about being all knowing...... Looks like it came back home to rest.:wink:

That control over the injectors, coupled with the sensors in the block designed to detect knock, is how knock is
Eliminated.. a slight ping is different from a knock as well. The engine is at its peak efficiency just before it pings..
A slight ping is not the same as detonation.. I hear some odd noises between the DCT operation and all the valves and solenoid operation of the variable intake runners, egr system, etc.. from time to time.. but all healthy sounds.. and
Not a hint of knock or ping.. good stuff! Some people on here need to put a bit of faith in the engineers and the systems in place to protect the engine...

https://www.cars.com/auto-repair/glossary/knock-sensor/ .

Knock sensors are mechanical and are attached to the block, not in it or built in them. You can't hear the operation of an EGR Valve working either, it's operated by vacuum. LMAO Of you can always write it off to dementia. People generally afflicted, start hearing things that aren't there and it can happen as early 30's 40's & 50's. So no offense, just having a little fun!:grin:

Of course your personal commented information is a bit "anecdotal," (as you say) is a bit flawed based upon factual information but hey who's counting. Oh and faith, (trust) in mans inventions LMAO, not a chance, they're always flawed in some way or another. That's kind of like your new found bud, faith can be misplaced and happens all the time.

Blessings and Peace

 

[JR KONA]

It may not be detonation your hearing. Funny thing about GDI engines, fuel can be injected into the cylinder at any time. Sometimes on the intake stoke, and sometimes on the compression stroke or even multiple injections during the same firing event. The ECU does a couple of things, it can advance or retard the timing, it can change the timing of fuel injection, it can change the time the injector is open, and can change the lift pump pulse width modulation to vary output pressure, as well as changing the signal for the high pressure pumps pwm by way of the solenoid on the side of the high pressure pump. One of the oddities is that lack of a fuel temp sensor in the lift pump, especially odd for a vehicle without a return line.

Just bad info ,all they way around!:smile: Read below; GDI injectors, on the other hand, can only inject fuel during the intake and compression stroke. Tis comes to you free, from RICK!
Carbon buildup in Gasoline Direct Injection engines ? Ricks Free Auto Repair Advice Ricks Free Auto Repair Advice | Automotive Repair Tips and How-To,
Second paragraph, third sentence.:wink: Ah the 1.6T Gamma is GDI last time I checked and not an MFI. So, you might at least attempt to first comprehend and then get your facts straight when reading or quoting off the internet.:wink: I'm just saying......But keep trying.:smile:

You and your new all knowing bud, ought to get together for a bit of brainstorming and contemplation.(Om mani padme om). Might help, you never know!:grin:

Blessings and Peace

 

[DJkona]

Knock sensors are not mechanical per say. It does use mechanical binding to hold it to the block, but it uses a piezoelectric sensor, that produces voltage when it vibrates. The voltage signal, when it reaches a predetermined point (set by manufacturer of the engine), trips a specific set of rules in the ecu. The ECU checks off those rules and signals other parts of the engine to change running condition.

 

[JR KONA]

LOL... of course you do... you have fun with that and your anecdotal information..

Meanwhile... I will use the fuel the car was designed to use, regular... I prefer not to waste resources and time
On additives that aren’t needed.. They have their place and use.. but certainly not the way you described..

Yes, you must be absolutely right. Whatever you say has got to be correct, you seem to be all knowing. Have fun with that.:wink:

What was that you said about being all knowing...... Looks like it came back home to rest.:wink:

LOL... of course you do... you have fun with that and your anecdotal information..

Meanwhile... I will use the fuel the car was designed to use, regular... I prefer not to waste resources and time
On additives that aren’t needed.. They have their place and use.. but certainly not the way you described..

Yes, you must be absolutely right. Whatever you say has got to be correct, you seem to be all knowing. Have fun with that.:wink:

What was that you said about being all knowing...... Looks like it came back home to rest.:wink:

That control over the injectors, coupled with the sensors in the block designed to detect knock, is how knock is
Eliminated.. a slight ping is different from a knock as well. The engine is at its peak efficiency just before it pings..
A slight ping is not the same as detonation.. I hear some odd noises between the DCT operation and all the valves and solenoid operation of the variable intake runners, egr system, etc.. from time to time.. but all healthy sounds.. and
Not a hint of knock or ping.. good stuff! Some people on here need to put a bit of faith in the engineers and the systems in place to protect the engine...

https://www.cars.com/auto-repair/glossary/knock-sensor/ .

Knock sensors are mechanical and are attached to the block, not in it or built in them. You can't hear the operation of an EGR Valve working either, it's operated by vacuum. Of you can always write it off to dementia. People generally afflicted, start hearing things that aren't there and it can happen as early 30's 40's & 50's. So no offense, just having a little fun!:grin:

Blessings and Peace

 

[JR KONA]

Knock sensors are not mechanical per say. It does use mechanical binding to hold it to the block, but it uses a piezoelectric sensor, that produces voltage when it vibrates. The voltage signal, when it reaches a predetermined point (set by manufacturer of the engine), trips a specific set of rules in the ecu. The ECU checks off those rules and signals other parts of the engine to change running condition.

No kidding! Glad you can finally read and quote it directly. Heres a video; oh darn I'm plagiarizing or is it something truthful? I'll let you decide.............no on second thought it's truthful. A knock sensor is actually; electro-mechanical to put it simply. But then this takes the fun out of all the plagiarizing you just managed! LMAO

By the way, you're plagiarizing, I think you once said this, to someone else. Where's your source........I just sayin, to quote your new best bud.

Personally not a fan of plagiarism,

https://www.hyundaikonaforum.com/fo...-2018-hyundai-kona-general-discussion/1994-kona-ultimate-exhaust-upgrade-2.html (Post #18) LMAO:grin: But I'm a fan actually! Have fun with that,(UnKnown Kona)!!

Keep trying, one day you'll understand but maybe your all knowing new friend can tell you. He seems to know everything........not! LMAO

Hurry along now and waste some more time trying to look up more stuff on the internet. Things you're not really aware of without looking. LMAO

Blessings and Peace

 

[Seatart]

I agree...tired of both these guys..........

 

[BlackBetty]

I have cleaned up the thread a little. (I may do more when I have time)
I want to keep as much technical info in the posts

I have also issued warnings to both @DJkona and @JR KONA

Lets get this thread back on track

 

[JR KONA]

Absolutely!!

 

[Seatart]

I have cleaned up the thread a little. (I may do more when I have time)
I want to keep as much technical info in the posts

I have also issued warnings to both @DJkona and @jrkona

Lets get this thread back on track

Thank you
It was getting tiring listening to these two people battle for word salad supremacy.

 

[Mainia1]

It may not be detonation your hearing. Funny thing about GDI engines, fuel can be injected into the cylinder at any time. Sometimes on the intake stoke, and sometimes on the compression stroke or even multiple injections during the same firing event. The ECU does a couple of things, it can advance or retard the timing, it can change the timing of fuel injection, it can change the time the injector is open, and can change the lift pump pulse width modulation to vary output pressure, as well as changing the signal for the high pressure pumps pwm by way of the solenoid on the side of the high pressure pump. One of the oddities is that lack of a fuel temp sensor in the lift pump, especially odd for a vehicle without a return line.

Nope, it is detonation, I have spent years tuning 12:0 to 1 engines on pump gas that had zero ignition technology on all different types of cars. I know the sound well and every elevation of octane reduced the sound. It is a no brainer.

 

[JR KONA]

I like the "Salad Supremacy" comment! Have to remember that one.:grin: Maybe we can work that one into the gas in the oil problem.:wink: Salad.....oil........maybe!:smile:

Just a funny; Ha I got a mention, thanks @BlackBetty:grin: LOL

Blessings and Peace

 

[Seatart]

Would be nice to here from Tara Nelson as to a resolution, if there was one. Looks like she/he had just the one post.

 

[JR KONA]

Yes agreed, it might be, but we haven't seen her come back.

Blessings and Peace

 

[Bad~Papa]

Would be nice to here from Tara Nelson as to a resolution, if there was one. Looks like she/he had just the one post.

Other with the same issue, experiencing higher oil levels have been in extreme cold conditions...
seems to be related to running rich and causing fuel dilution of the oil.. +Maina1 seems to have
Some solutions to curtail the dilution... do a search.. waiting to hear back from those when the
Weather warms up.. I’m not seeing any rise in oil level.. but way more mild here in the SE