What octane gas are you running for the 1.6 T engine?
What octane gas are running for the 1.6 T engine?
Mainia1
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Interesting, I have yet to experience any detonation in my Kona while using 87 octane, however I only use Sunoco brand fuel.
Are you using a top tier fuel? I know in the past I've dealt with quite a few issues with customers vehicles having detonation issues because they were using discount store premium fuels...
I don't need to guess, I've know about this nearly all my driving life. if you hear detonation or pinging on load, you need to run a higher octane fuel it just that simple. I didn't say you needed to utilize premium fuel. You a more than able to make this decision for yourself. I'm just providing everyone with some additional knowledge. This information is available to anyone who utilizes the internet, all you have to do is to research the information for yourself.
I'm an old time engine builder; of both motorcycles and autos, in naturally aspirated, supercharged and turbocharged applications. I know what works and what doesn't. What I've provided has and is information which is generally known among engine builders and tuners for many decades.
I utilize premium fuel as the benefits are already known for a higher compression engine. Generally, turbocharged motors are built around 8:1 compression ratios with flat top pistons. It's only in the past 8 or so years t manufactures have started to utilize higher compression pistons in turbocharged applications. They have created electronics and ECU programming which compensates for use of such higher compression ratios.
As I said before, you can choose to do anything you desire and believe anything you want. I'm just providing additional factual information to help owners make an educated decision or not. I hope what I've provided will shed some light on the subject.
Blessings and Peace
I'm an old time engine builder; of both motorcycles and autos, in naturally aspirated, supercharged and turbocharged applications. I know what works and what doesn't. What I've provided has and is information which is generally known among engine builders and tuners for many decades.
I utilize premium fuel as the benefits are already known for a higher compression engine. Generally, turbocharged motors are built around 8:1 compression ratios with flat top pistons. It's only in the past 8 or so years t manufactures have started to utilize higher compression pistons in turbocharged applications. They have created electronics and ECU programming which compensates for use of such higher compression ratios.
As I said before, you can choose to do anything you desire and believe anything you want. I'm just providing additional factual information to help owners make an educated decision or not. I hope what I've provided will shed some light on the subject.
Blessings and Peace
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108 Posts
Ok, I thought you might have some new information specifically related to the 1.6T.
Today's powertrain control systems are massively superior (and an order of magnitude more complicated) to anything even from only 10 years ago (OEM speaking, not Formula 1 or other exotic applications). Almost everything is torque demand based and has drive by wire, variable valve timing etc... plus with the emissions standards getting more and more stringent (Dieselgate has made the job at least 10x more difficult as well) much of what was done in the past as far as the calibration is concerned is no longer relevant.
One of the biggest reasons the 1.6T (and most of today's high compression forced induction engines) are able to get by with 10:1 (or higher) compression ratio is because it has direct injection which is basically the same thing as having a port injected engine at around 8.5 - 9:1, this coupled with things like a high swirl intake port and combustion chamber design also allow for higher compression ratios.
The 5.0 V8 in my 2016 F-150 is 10.5:1 (port injection only) from the factory, and I'm currently running 9 pounds of boost on top of this with no issues, and when I run it on E85 I'm actually able to run it at MBT which is pretty amazing. With factory wide band lambda sensors, variable valve timing, adaptive spark/knock, and 30+ spark tables to dial in everything it's quite awesome what today's controllers can allow you to do and still be emissions compliant...
Today's powertrain control systems are massively superior (and an order of magnitude more complicated) to anything even from only 10 years ago (OEM speaking, not Formula 1 or other exotic applications). Almost everything is torque demand based and has drive by wire, variable valve timing etc... plus with the emissions standards getting more and more stringent (Dieselgate has made the job at least 10x more difficult as well) much of what was done in the past as far as the calibration is concerned is no longer relevant.
One of the biggest reasons the 1.6T (and most of today's high compression forced induction engines) are able to get by with 10:1 (or higher) compression ratio is because it has direct injection which is basically the same thing as having a port injected engine at around 8.5 - 9:1, this coupled with things like a high swirl intake port and combustion chamber design also allow for higher compression ratios.
The 5.0 V8 in my 2016 F-150 is 10.5:1 (port injection only) from the factory, and I'm currently running 9 pounds of boost on top of this with no issues, and when I run it on E85 I'm actually able to run it at MBT which is pretty amazing. With factory wide band lambda sensors, variable valve timing, adaptive spark/knock, and 30+ spark tables to dial in everything it's quite awesome what today's controllers can allow you to do and still be emissions compliant...
Actually, this technology has been around for quite some time. It's recently (last 5 years) been adapted to GDI engines. However, I won't run anything but premium in a "Turbocharged GDI Engine." Especially one with 21 lbs of max boost and I don't care what's controlling it. Most owners can't tell if the engine is knocking or not and to be on the safe side ought to be running at least 89 octane fuel.
It's all about being emission compliant. This is why automotive engineers have been forced in this direction. You and I are basically in the same ball park but I'm airing on the side of common sense, not to say you aren't but I'm not satisfied with running the Kona on 87 or 89 octane. The cost saving is negligible. for running 87 octane.
Blessings and Peace
It's all about being emission compliant. This is why automotive engineers have been forced in this direction. You and I are basically in the same ball park but I'm airing on the side of common sense, not to say you aren't but I'm not satisfied with running the Kona on 87 or 89 octane. The cost saving is negligible. for running 87 octane.
Blessings and Peace
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I buy nothing but top tier, and I have from 3 different branded top tier oil companies.
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Agree.. looking for the specifics of this ecm.. my other car has the ability to use regular , but gets more power via advanced timing thru detection.. the ability is there.. we need specifics..
19 - 20 psi ? With a relalatively high Compression ratio seems not realistic? Especially on regular gas. I know the direct injection helps cool the combustion chamber, but that 20 PSI Doesn’t sound right.. you’d never cool The charge off enough with such a small IC.. seems off... ?
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I don't know where he's getting his information, however I'm generally not one to take someone else's word on these things (especially when they don't site a source), so I did a little datalogging in mine this afternoon and the absolute highest boost I saw (one time for like .01 second) was 126.9 kPa (18.4 PSI) at 3900 RPM, and it dropped like a rock after that, by 5800 RPM it was only at 78 kPa (11.3 PSI) Most of the time the boost would peak at around 120 kPa (17.4 PSI) and fall from there. This was in around 85 degree ambient temperature and I'm at 900' above sea level. On a cooler day (and at sea level) with nice dense air it will definitely make more boost...
After looking at the log I can now see how it can get by on 87 octane. At peak boost the timing is quite low, I saw anywhere from -1 to 2 degrees of spark at peak boost, lower RPM as boost is building the spark in some places was even lower at -5 or -6 degrees. Once the boost starts decreasing the spark does ramp in at 5800 RPM it was typically around 9 degrees. I'm going to try this again next week with some 93 octane to see if the boost or spark changes.
I'm not surprised at how to boost graph looks though, it's pretty much how all the OE's are sizing their turbos these days, small so it builds boost quickly (and adds to the LSPI issue) for nice bottom end torque but then they run out of steam in the upper RPM's which is why they can ramp in the spark to help.
Also I'm quite surprised at how quickly the intercooler cooled back down after heat soaking for 45 minutes or so after my drive home from work. When I went out to start logging the IAT was sitting at 80 degrees (176 F) and after driving for a few minutes it was below 50 (122 F).
What type of data logger are you utilizing? Blue tooth or direct ODB II connect. I like the AEM AQ-1 OBDII Data Logger it's extremely accurate and has a multitude of functions. Posting a bunch of data is not really advantageous, as most just won't understand without long explanations.
No offense to anyone but data logging can be quite intricate and confusing, if you've not utilized it before. You can virtually monitor every system in the vehicle. I'm considering a SAE handheld unit for specific adjustments but this may come later. I'll see how the funds pan out in the future.
You'll find a bit of difference in the use of 93 octane also. Keeping in mind, we are at 5860 above sea level, so there are some differences and variants.
Blessings and Peace
No offense to anyone but data logging can be quite intricate and confusing, if you've not utilized it before. You can virtually monitor every system in the vehicle. I'm considering a SAE handheld unit for specific adjustments but this may come later. I'll see how the funds pan out in the future.
You'll find a bit of difference in the use of 93 octane also. Keeping in mind, we are at 5860 above sea level, so there are some differences and variants.
Blessings and Peace
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I just used my HP Tuners cable (direct obd ii) since it's quick and easy. Although it's pretty much limited to SAE PIDs but those were plenty to tell me what I was looking for. Maybe when I have some free time I'll try some of my other tools on it, but I'll have to manually configure everything that way which is quite time consuming...
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No wait......that's right, same boost no matter what octane you run, it's just the timing that pulls back ....right????
Yes maximum boost is static. Yes, boost will increase or decrease at given rpms. Boost in the Kona 1.6T is limited to 20 psi or is it 21 psi maximum. I'm going to have to recheck the graphs to be absolutely sure. It does drop off dramatically at around 5655 rpm from there onward towards redline. Of course ambient atmospheric conditions have considerable influence on psi(lbf/in²) and power overall, so does altitude.
I presume you're measuring differential pressure or absolute pressure, assuming you are measuring (psia), which is the pressure relative to absolute zero vacuum.
Blessings and Peace
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I believe you are meaning psig, if it was psia at 20 psi that would only be 5.3 pounds of boost (assuming an atmosphere of 14.7)...
Yes that is correct. It’s hard to hit the right keys on my iPad with my little fat fingers, keys being so small and that dang auto correct.:grin: Guess I should stick to my iMac keyboard.:wink:
Absolute max which is limited by the ECU is 20 psi, which is equal to around (138 kPa) for the Kona, unless you lift the limiter along with a tune. There is a larger turbo setup for the Kona but the ECU still won’t be able to take advantage of the increase like it should, unless the limiter is lifted. The only tune available is the Vivid Racing Tune, which I would actually trust. However they don’t lift the boost limiter.
I just don’t have the guts to do so, without at least milling the cylinders to add a pressure ring. I just don’t believe the head gasket would take much more pressure by itself. And of course I can just write off the warranty while I’m a it too. So it’s not an option.:sad:
So it’s simply bolt on options and VR Tune Box with a special tune from Vivid. I think I’ll be able to get around 240-250 with a larger inter cooler, tubing, cold air, intake spacer and VR Piggyback tuner, maybe even a tube turbo manifold. There’s a company in the UK that will build one for a price but it isn’t cheap by any means.
I think this is all I can really get away with safely and still retain a warranty. The manifold and down pipe will be questionable but the rest is quickly reversible for any warranty work.
Blessings and Peace
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