[Jeff_NLine]

What's your take on gas mileage with gdi vs mpi? I have not made a study of it, but I'm not really impressed with the mileage ratings I'm seeing of some gdi cars. I do agree that you get more performance; but I'm wondering if that is the biggest reason for the implementation of gdi. Some marketing data says that gdi produces fewer pollutants than Port Injection. I think there's a big difference between a motor right off the assembly line and one that has miles on it and is burning oil. There's so much data out there from mechanics and other sources about how filthy gdi engines become and how much oil they burn. It's not that I have some strange desire that it be that way; it's just what I have been reading everywhere.
About the oil change interval and oil to choose; I was getting ready to implement a plan for all that when I had the Kona, and I recognized that I should probably change the oil about every 4k miles and let Hyundai do their change at every 8k miles as is called for in the manual. But I too was worried that they would use whatever oil is on-hand while I go to the expense of putting good 0w-20 synthetic in there. That along with doing the seafoam or equivalent every time I did an oil change became overload for me. Even though I traded the Kona in for the Tucson with MPi and GDi, I will still have to be vigilant about the oil changes just due to the GDi technology; so I'm not out of the woods on this issue; I'll probably just be spared the excess input value carbon buildup.

 

[El Comandante]

Looks like you have the formula worked out. As far as the trans, you have CVT right? I know they're getting more reliable these days, but I still opted for the 8-speed regular trans. Hope that one holds up, as I've read they have had issues too. I really liked the Kona though; other than the condensation in the running lights within a week of ownership and then finding out about gdi. Never heard of it til now. I didn't even know that our 2019 Altima had GDI. and other than the ISG in the Tucson, I like that model a bit better too. The 2.5 has tolerable performance and has both the gdi / mpi and more space. Although the Kona 2024 added some additional legroom and a little width.

No, it’s a traditional transmission w a torque converter. I’m very familiar w CVT trannys. I work in automotive and sell to service department and have several Nissan customers.

CVT’s “…are the future design…” according to several service foreman. Consumers want as smooth a shift as possible. You do need to flush them early and often as they build high heat very quickly and run hot normally.

have a 2021 Rogue AWD the new body style. Great vehicle. Got 40k miles now and I run her like a raped ape. I did the first trans flush at 30,000 and the dealer techs agreed. I plan to flush it every 30k

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Sorry brother; I can't agree with "Consumers want as smooth a shift as possible". I first want a reliable transmission, and many people including me like the shift. Manufacturers have added fake shift feeling to cvt's for that reason. I would agree that cvt's are cheaper to make and that's why car makerd are making them. I don't want to flush tranny every 30k under any circumstances. If cars keep becoming more disposable junk, I'll have to lease.

 

[El Comandante]

Sorry brother; I can't agree with "Consumers want as smooth a shift as possible". I first want a reliable transmission, and many people including me like the shift. Manufacturers have added fake shift feeling to cvt's for that reason. I would agree that cvt's are cheaper to make and that's why car makerd are making them. I don't want to flush tranny every 30k under any circumstances. If cars keep becoming more disposable junk, I'll have to lease.

No argument here. I was just passing on what service departments were telling me. As for Nisssan’s CVT, I would strongly urge any CVT trans owner to flush it periodically or they’ll disintegrate those packs in no time. I’ve seen those trannies laying on the floor all over the place I n service bays.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

No argument here. I was just passing on what service departments were telling me. As for Nisssan’s CVT, I would strongly urge any CVT trans owner to flush it periodically or they’ll disintegrate those packs in no time. I’ve seen those trannies laying on the floor all over the place I n service bays.

We traded in that Altima that was cvt and gdi-only. I'm not going to miss it. It was not a bad car for 55k miles, but I don't trust either technology.

 

[El Comandante]

We traded in that Altima that was cvt and gdi-only. I'm not going to miss it. It was not a bad car for 55k miles, but I don't trust either technology.

The problem is what tech is out there that any of us can trust? This is why I got the 2.0 AWD. Conventional trans w normally aspirated motor.

I am looking into Toyotas.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Sorry you had problems. Cold start up is one problem that port injection addresses. GDI has to inject a lot o fuel to get enough to light off. Because of the longer distance/time the fuel has in the air stream port injection needs less fuel. It’s important to on GDI engines to change oil. I have done my oil changes at 5K miles since new.

I'll be doing the same despite that we traded into a Tucson gdi/mpi. I hope gdi completely goes away though, but I doubt it will due to turbos. I don't a see a great enough advantage of gdi over mpi with naturally aspirated engines.

 

[miniceptor86]

I doubt GDI will go away but I think that MPI and GDI ICE engines will be the norm until ??? what is next.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Agreed. Even though I traded in a gdi-only 2024 kona for the mpi/gdi 2024 Tucson, I think parts of the motor other than the intake valves are going to get gunked up like my 2019 Nissan Altima (first gdi only Altima) did. The EGR valve was filthy after four years and the engine went into limp mode because of that. Gdi just seems like a filthy technology though; what with the small particle pollution it makes and all the carbon it leaves all over the inside of the motor. First I read how clean they burn and supposedly produced less pollution than non-gdi, but with even the slightest age, they live on burning oil and car manufacturers say that's "normal". The combusted oil is going into the atmosphere though. That might be the one reason that gdi may get the heave-ho eventually. I don't see the advantage of gdi though. I don't see better gas mileage. Maybe a little more power, especially with turbos; but low to mid twenties per gallon highway out of a low-powered four cylinder non-turbo is nothing to keep gdi technology for imho. If we were seeing 35 to 40 mpg, then ok, but still gdi is producing relatively similar hp and gas mileage as non-gdi, but with all the extra pollution and carbon buildup in the motors.
I'm not talking out Hyundai exclusively, but all manufacturers. I am not a mechanic though, but this is what I am seeing.

 

[El Comandante]

Agreed. Even though I traded in a gdi-only 2024 kona for the mpi/gdi 2024 Tucson, I think parts of the motor other than the intake valves are going to get gunked up like my 2019 Nissan Altima (first gdi only Altima) did. The EGR valve was filthy after four years and the engine went into limp mode because of that. Gdi just seems like a filthy technology though; what with the small particle pollution it makes and all the carbon it leaves all over the inside of the motor. First I read how clean they burn and supposedly produced less pollution than non-gdi, but with even the slightest age, they live on burning oil and car manufacturers say that's "normal". The combusted oil is going into the atmosphere though. That might be the one reason that gdi may get the heave-ho eventually. I don't see the advantage of gdi though. I don't see better gas mileage. Maybe a little more power, especially with turbos; but low to mid twenties per gallon highway out of a low-powered four cylinder non-turbo is nothing to keep gdi technology for imho. If we were seeing 35 to 40 mpg, then ok, but still gdi is producing relatively similar hp and gas mileage as non-gdi, but with all the extra pollution and carbon buildup in the motors.
I'm not talking out Hyundai exclusively, but all manufacturers. I am not a mechanic though, but this is what I am seeing.

Wouldn’t installing a catch can eliminate the valve carbon issue?

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Wouldn’t installing a catch can eliminate the valve carbon issue?

A lot of people appear to use them, so for a gdi-only motor it may be wise. I just read that some manufacturers are adding them to gdi-only motors. I just didn't want to deal with any work-arounds and I took the financil hit early by trading back in. My dealer was forgiving about it though. I'm not suggesting that a gdi-only motor can't last for a very long time especially with timely oil changes and maybe a catch can, but I just didn't want to get involved with it.

 

[CRnSC]

Gonna stick my head back in the bee hive...

GDI Engines. I think the whole point of GDI is like light-weight oil. Try to squeeze the most out of the engine with the least fuel and still meet emissions. I can't see where any good ECU would not always try to lean-burn the engine at all times just to get that "one more" MPG.

It doesn't take much. if you can get 5% better fuel efficiency with a GDI, that increases your ability to produce "dirty" cars like SUV's. Look at all the EPA crap that an automaker has to work with. Credits, Overall (Fleet) Fuel Economy Average (CAFE regs), etc. It is a numbers game. Make all of your vehicles get 2mpg more and waah-laah. You can now sell more bigger ("dirty") cars and keep your "overall" fuel economy high.

To me, the "math" says that GDI is superior to a wet intake. Keep in mind that the fuel (which is designed to remove deposits) will wash over the valves in a non-GDI. This is where my heart and my mind will never agree. GDI can meter a very exacting fuel mixture each time a cylinder fires....and using spark control is just the icing on the cake, yet-- you still have the PCV crap to contend with.

I am hoping that the Engine Oil Companies are paying attention. I guess we have to rely on something like the GM Dexos "standard" or some other measure, but I think most modern oils (especially Synthetic) will figure out a way to keep the PCV contaminants at a minimum while also doing other magical things like trying to quell Low Speed Preignition (another "benefit" of GDI). I think this is what the latest API spec allows customers to validate for themselves. My concern is that if an engine is designed for API SP and the dealer only has SN+...will that be enough? I'm getting lost here...

For overall emissions where a GDI is "dirtier" than a MPFI? Hmmm... I don't think the EPA cares how the fuel is delivered, it is what comes out of the tailpipe over distance. No matter what engine intake you put in a car, it has to meet some EPA spec. On the fringe, there are some things like carbon deposits and cylinder washing with GDI that MPFI does not have. I don't think that matters in the world of trying to get a car to pass emissions testing.

It all comes down to Fuel Economy. The brass at corporate told the engineering department to make their cars more efficient. The engineers decided over too many beers that they could get 3% more MPG if they use some 0w16 oil and called it a day-- and that worked fine for a few years. Corporate now says they need to "do more." The engineers at that time decided GDI was the way forward. I don't think GDI will ever go away now that it is in common production, but I do see some of the "yeah-- that can happen" problems being cured with some better oil and higher quality fuel as well as a brute force methods of just putting an injector in the intake...if all you are after is intake valve build-up. (side note, I think a lot of the fear of intake build up comes from earlier VW engines and not "newer" engines like what is in my Hyundai)

We can talk about Turbo GDI and how I think that is the best method for consumers to get good fuel economy with realistic power delivery. A tiny engine that can give 200Lbs of torque when trying to merge on the highway? ...and not making it scream at 7k RPM? I'm all in !!! You're telling me I can get 30+MPG on every tank and I'm not the cause of the crash from being slow? Yep. Again, if the ECU is any good, you can extract a lot of power by using a GDI and Turbo. I dunno...something about volumetric efficiency. Never lose sight of the fact that you can run regular (87) octane on an turbo engine???? Whaaaaat? GDI is awesome that way and can do that every day in a passenger car.

Catch Cans-- well, I think if you can drive your car where you can "burn off" the oil contaminants then you really don't need a catch can. If you take lots of shorter trips and get down on it when the engine is not up to operating temp, then you will get a lot more crud in your oil. \\\\Change my mind////

To me, once a GDI gets to operating temp (out of the cold start mapping) it will figure itself out...better fuel economy, less nasty blow-by, etc. I'm a believer.

You make some valid points and these are my thoughts.



Enjoy !!

 

[El Comandante]

Paralysis through analysis. There’s just too many examples of having to remove intakes and valve trains for walnut blasting due to GDI.

Just look at the gunk those catch cans catch.

That’s all I needed to see.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Paralysis through analysis. There’s just too many examples of having to remove intakes and valve trains for walnut blasting due to GDI.

Just look at the gunk those catch cans catch.

That’s all I needed to see.

Me too. And it's much worse than just the gunk in your engine. All that burning oil that car companies are saying is acceptable is going into the atmosphere for that additional 5% mpg and extra hp. NOT TO MENTION (but I must), all the extra oil and filters from far more frequent oil changes required, AND the cost of required synthetic oil AND the danged fuel additives every oil change. GDI - get rid of it.

 

[Starbird]

Have had multiple GDI engines, including the "infamous" 2.4L GDI in a 2015 Sonata. Each and every one of them got 5K/6mo oil changes throughout ownership. None of them burned oil, none had any kind of engine failure. The only "deviation" I did was the non-turbo engines calling for 5w20 were switched to 5w30. I am in central Texas where summer pavement temps can hit 140F. Daily, for months at a time.

The Kona N calls for 0w30, which is very hard to find here. I run 5W30, Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic with the same 5K/6mo OCI (except for the first change done at 1500mi.). The valve cover was pulled on the 2.4L at ~65K (leaky valve cover gasket, common issue) and the tech said the inside of the valve cover and valve train looked spotless. No sludge, varnish, nada. Said they rarely see one that clean.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

I just replied and this website said my typing was invalid and erased it all. I'll see if it will accept this comment.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Have had multiple GDI engines, including the "infamous" 2.4L GDI in a 2015 Sonata. Each and every one of them got 5K/6mo oil changes throughout ownership. None of them burned oil, none had any kind of engine failure. The only "deviation" I did was the non-turbo engines calling for 5w20 were switched to 5w30. I am in central Texas where summer pavement temps can hit 140F. Daily, for months at a time.

The Kona N calls for 0w30, which is very hard to find here. I run 5W30, Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic with the same 5K/6mo OCI (except for the first change done at 1500mi.). The valve cover was pulled on the 2.4L at ~65K (leaky valve cover gasket, common issue) and the tech said the inside of the valve cover and valve train looked spotless. No sludge, varnish, nada. Said they rarely see one that clean.

I'm curious if you did the gas treatments, and if you used any gdi cleaners in the air intake? Also was your commute longer than typical? You mentioned that you do oil changes every 5k rather than the 8k, by the book. Did you not allow Hyundai to do the complimentary oil changes? Just trying to understand your good fortune.
Thx

 

[Starbird]

I'm curious if you did the gas treatments, and if you used any gdi cleaners in the air intake? Also was your commute longer than typical? You mentioned that you do oil changes every 5k rather than the 8k, by the book. Did you not allow Hyundai to do the complimentary oil changes? Just trying to understand your good fortune.
Thx

Ran Techron fuel system cleaner with a tank of gas ever other oil change. Early in the 2015 Sonata (2.4L) and 2014 Elantra GT (2.0L) I did one CRC Intake cleaning on each. At around 20K miles I switched to Valvoline full synthetic on all cars and never did another intake cleaning. I read an article around 2017 comparing various full synthetic oils that showed Valvoline had developed an additive package that greatly lessened the creation of the byproducts that were collecting on the intake valves. Not something that would clean the valves but would prevent the formation of the deposits. After switching I did at least 50K miles on each engine without any loss of power, fuel economy, or smoothness.

Over the lives of the Sonata and Elantra GT, the Sonata typically had a shorter daily commute (maybe 5 miles each way) but was used for multiple long trips. The GT had a longer daily commute (about 20mi each way) but rarely made long trips. The GT was also driven in a more aggressive manner. 😁

At the time of purchase, Hyundai did not offer the three year maintenance program. Only the first change was covered.

I use the same oil type in our present vehicles. The 2023 Tucson 2.5L gets 0W20 and the 2023 Kona N 2.0L Turbo gets 5W30. I take the oil to the dealer for the Tucson oil changes and do the Kona N myself.

 

[Starbird]

I just replied and this website said my typing was invalid and erased it all. I'll see if it will accept this comment.

Happens occasionally. In humans, referred to as a brain-fart. With computers, a bit-belch.

 

[Jeff_NLine]

Ran Techron fuel system cleaner with a tank of gas ever other oil change. Early in the 2015 Sonata (2.4L) and 2014 Elantra GT (2.0L) I did one CRC Intake cleaning on each. At around 20K miles I switched to Valvoline full synthetic on all cars and never did another intake cleaning. I read an article around 2017 comparing various full synthetic oils that showed Valvoline had developed an additive package that greatly lessened the creation of the byproducts that were collecting on the intake valves. Not something that would clean the valves but would prevent the formation of the deposits. After switching I did at least 50K miles on each engine without any loss of power, fuel economy, or smoothness.

Over the lives of the Sonata and Elantra GT, the Sonata typically had a shorter daily commute (maybe 5 miles each way) but was used for multiple long trips. The GT had a longer daily commute (about 20mi each way) but rarely made long trips. The GT was also driven in a more aggressive manner. 😁

At the time of purchase, Hyundai did not offer the three year maintenance program. Only the first change was covered.

I use the same oil type in our present vehicles. The 2023 Tucson 2.5L gets 0W20 and the 2023 Kona N 2.0L Turbo gets 5W30. I take the oil to the dealer for the Tucson oil changes and do the Kona N myself.

Sounds like you found a good recipe.
I still have to be concerned about gdi, but at least the mpi should keep the valves clean. Your experience seems atypical though. When some day I see "most" older gdi's not crudded up, loosing power, burning tons of oil, etc, and not requiring extensive and expensive preventative maintenance, and repair then maybe I'll be onboard. I still wish my 2024 Tucson were mpi only though.