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MY20 Hyundai Kona Highlander
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Discussion Starter #1
This relates to Australia, but presume latest price hikes for supercharging will filter through to other countries. At any rate the Tesla website appears to be misleading in suggesting that Tesla fuel costs are cheaper than equivalent petrol cars.

I guess this is what happens when you sack your media & PR folk, as Elon has recently done. This article is from a usually reputable source, so it’s probably true.

But my main gripe is that Tesla superchargers now cost about 20% more than non-Tesla superchargers in Aus. Which in turn will mean more Teslas crowding out the non-Tesla networks.
 

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theres been studies, showing that an electic vehicle, before you buy it, has a 10 year carbon footprint on it, so its the same as producing a gas car and runnning it for 10 years, equals to a new electic car, so this does not surprise me at all
 

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the 10 yr footprint
theres been studies, showing that an electic vehicle, before you buy it, has a 10 year carbon footprint on it, so its the same as producing a gas car and runnning it for 10 years, equals to a new electic car, so this does not surprise me at all
And many of the studies were debunked. They got lots of play on the internet, but had loads of flaws and misinformation. Some were based on EVs of yesteryear with very limited range and older battery tech. Many based on German data that was biased toward diesel cars vs gasoline, hybrid or EVs. We also know some prominent German companies who were pushing diesel for years also lied about diesel emissions for a decade-plus. There are WAY too many variables to say what the footprint of all EVs is vs all ICE cars. The carbon footprint for any new vehicle depends heavily on where it was made, and for EVs, where the battery was made. Some countries still primarily use coal for electricity generation.....so that electricity used for manufacturing and mining elements in those countries has a heavy carbon hit.. Electricity or heat generated from gas is better than coal, but still not 'clean' between power plant emissions and regular, ongoing pipeline/drilling/supply leaks. Now we're seeing some manufacturers (mostly Tesla) going with solar/hydro/wind at some plants. EV's have different sizes batteries (a 15KWh battery could use less than 1/4 of the energy to produce a 64KWh). ICE vehicles have different sized engines and support components like catalytic converters with ceramic and rare earth components, radiators, hose, valves, fuel tanks, mufflers, tailpipes, etc). The carbon footprint for manufacturing of a class of vehicles - ICE vs EV - is far too general, there are too many important variables. But it would be possible to calculate and compare a particular vehicle model made in a particular location against a different vehicle made in a particular location. Likely Konas made in Korea have a different footprint than those that will be made in Europe. If you're keeping a vehicle for many years, once on the road, an EV running on electricity generated by wind or solar for a decade or more vs an ICE car burning gas or diesel....gets to be no contest very, very quickly and will likely be a wider difference as more 'green' power becomes available and coal plants are retired in the coming decade.

As for pricing at Superchargers vs non-Tesla Level 3 chargers, for me at least, I so rarely have to charge outside my home (I drive about 17,000 miles per year) I do not fret over pricing. I am more concerned with convenient charge location when I am running low.
 

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the 10 yr footprint

And many of the studies were debunked. They got lots of play on the internet, but had loads of flaws and misinformation. Some were based on EVs of yesteryear with very limited range and older battery tech. Many based on German data that was biased toward diesel cars vs gasoline, hybrid or EVs. We also know some prominent German companies who were pushing diesel for years also lied about diesel emissions for a decade-plus. There are WAY too many variables to say what the footprint of all EVs is vs all ICE cars. The carbon footprint for any new vehicle depends heavily on where it was made, and for EVs, where the battery was made. Some countries still primarily use coal for electricity generation.....so that electricity used for manufacturing and mining elements in those countries has a heavy carbon hit.. Electricity or heat generated from gas is better than coal, but still not 'clean' between power plant emissions and regular, ongoing pipeline/drilling/supply leaks. Now we're seeing some manufacturers (mostly Tesla) going with solar/hydro/wind at some plants. EV's have different sizes batteries (a 15KWh battery could use less than 1/4 of the energy to produce a 64KWh). ICE vehicles have different sized engines and support components like catalytic converters with ceramic and rare earth components, radiators, hose, valves, fuel tanks, mufflers, tailpipes, etc). The carbon footprint for manufacturing of a class of vehicles - ICE vs EV - is far too general, there are too many important variables. But it would be possible to calculate and compare a particular vehicle model made in a particular location against a different vehicle made in a particular location. Likely Konas made in Korea have a different footprint than those that will be made in Europe. If you're keeping a vehicle for many years, once on the road, an EV running on electricity generated by wind or solar for a decade or more vs an ICE car burning gas or diesel....gets to be no contest very, very quickly and will likely be a wider difference as more 'green' power becomes available and coal plants are retired in the coming decade.

As for pricing at Superchargers vs non-Tesla Level 3 chargers, for me at least, I so rarely have to charge outside my home (I drive about 17,000 miles per year) I do not fret over pricing. I am more concerned with convenient charge location when I am running low.
meh too long for my add
thanks anyways ill read it later
 

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the 10 yr footprint

And many of the studies were debunked. They got lots of play on the internet, but had loads of flaws and misinformation. Some were based on EVs of yesteryear with very limited range and older battery tech. Many based on German data that was biased toward diesel cars vs gasoline, hybrid or EVs. We also know some prominent German companies who were pushing diesel for years also lied about diesel emissions for a decade-plus. There are WAY too many variables to say what the footprint of all EVs is vs all ICE cars. The carbon footprint for any new vehicle depends heavily on where it was made, and for EVs, where the battery was made. Some countries still primarily use coal for electricity generation.....so that electricity used for manufacturing and mining elements in those countries has a heavy carbon hit.. Electricity or heat generated from gas is better than coal, but still not 'clean' between power plant emissions and regular, ongoing pipeline/drilling/supply leaks. Now we're seeing some manufacturers (mostly Tesla) going with solar/hydro/wind at some plants. EV's have different sizes batteries (a 15KWh battery could use less than 1/4 of the energy to produce a 64KWh). ICE vehicles have different sized engines and support components like catalytic converters with ceramic and rare earth components, radiators, hose, valves, fuel tanks, mufflers, tailpipes, etc). The carbon footprint for manufacturing of a class of vehicles - ICE vs EV - is far too general, there are too many important variables. But it would be possible to calculate and compare a particular vehicle model made in a particular location against a different vehicle made in a particular location. Likely Konas made in Korea have a different footprint than those that will be made in Europe. If you're keeping a vehicle for many years, once on the road, an EV running on electricity generated by wind or solar for a decade or more vs an ICE car burning gas or diesel....gets to be no contest very, very quickly and will likely be a wider difference as more 'green' power becomes available and coal plants are retired in the coming decade.

As for pricing at Superchargers vs non-Tesla Level 3 chargers, for me at least, I so rarely have to charge outside my home (I drive about 17,000 miles per year) I do not fret over pricing. I am more concerned with convenient charge location when I am running low.
read it
not going to argue
i guess it depends on where you get your info
thanks
 

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MY20 Hyundai Kona Highlander
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Discussion Starter #6
As for pricing at Superchargers vs non-Tesla Level 3 chargers, for me at least, I so rarely have to charge outside my home (I drive about 17,000 miles per year) I do not fret over pricing. I am more concerned with convenient charge location when I am running low.
Me too - I only use commercial chargers on trips ( & do 90+% charging at home). But when I’m on a trip I get annoyed when I have to queue while the Tesla ahead of me spends an hour charging on the only charger I can access, while there are 2 empty Tesla chargers left unused next to him.
 
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