[Kiwi]

Thanks for the report, Zes, every one adds to my list, about 25 so far. It's amazing that the dealer thinks it's OK and of course it absolutely isn't.
That's the earliest report I have other than one at only 142 km.

We're getting early indications that the magnetic plug is quite effective and another report that shows the blackness continues on past 30,000 km with no magnetic plug added. It would be a good idea to grab one in time for the next oil change.

I'm beginning to wish I had asked Votex for a kickback, lol! I did obtain another brand but it looks like it's too long. I had ordered two but one box was inexplicably empty. Weird, but Amazon gave me a refund for that.

 

[Kona57]

Thanks for the report, Zes, every one adds to my list, about 25 so far. It's amazing that the dealer thinks it's OK and of course it absolutely isn't.
That's the earliest report I have other than one at only 142 km.

We're getting early indications that the magnetic plug is quite effective and another report that shows the blackness continues on past 30,000 km with no magnetic plug added. It would be a good idea to grab one in time for the next oil change.

I'm beginning to wish I had asked Votex for a kickback, lol! I did obtain another brand but it looks like it's too long. I had ordered two but one box was inexplicably empty. Weird, but Amazon gave me a refund for that.

Kiwi, can you please post the link to buy the correct Votex plug for Kona EV?

 

[Kiwi]

It's on Amazon USA under this description:

Votex - M18X1.5MM Stainless Steel Engine Magnetic Oil Drain Plug with Neodymium Magnet - Made In USA - Part Number DP007

Quite a few owners have been using this part. You only need one but at least three of us have overdone it. Use a torque lower than the factory 33 lb-ft because the stainless is more slippery, about 28.

 

[Zes]

The dealer did the change and I was a little nervous asking about the Vortex plug. I got a nasty surprise when I got the bill for $250. The dealer claimed that it needed 3 quarts of oil! I said it thought it was just over 1 quart. I came home and pulled out the owner's manual and indeed it says on page 8-6 that 1 to 1.1 quart is necessary.

I have now sent a polite email to the dealer (McDonald Huyandai of Littleton, CO) requesting a refund of 2 quarts (almost $100). I will report on what they say!

 

[Zes]

Kiwi, how is the magnet in the Vortex plug attached? I am very concerned that it would fall into the gearbox! The dealer would love that :-(

 

[southern_kiwi]

Just found this forum, thank you to all those that have posted before me

Just purchased a 2021 64kwh base model with 10k on the clock, I was going to wait until the 15k service to ask for an oil change, but after reading this thread I think I'll get it doe ASAP!

Cheers
Skiwi

 

[Kiwi]

That's why it's important to use the one a number of us including myself have been testing over 6 months. I checked mine a few weeks ago and they are both still fine (since last Dec). I had asked the manufacturer about the glue used and they assured me it's strong and has been tested. Yes, it would be a complete disaster if the magnet exited from the body but there's not been any reports of that happening on Amazon's Votex feedback and the gearbox is a much lower temp application than an engine. Nonetheless, using this product is at everyone's own risk of course and your warranty is not going to cover any failure. But knowing what loose metal particles are already doing I think I'll take the chance!

I have another brand now to test and I'm starting off by submerging it in the bottle of fresh 70W-75 oil, held up by only the magnet. I've measured its length and will do so again in a month.

Just found this forum, thank you to all those that have posted before me
...

Welcome ... this project has been my pet since Nov 2021. Lucky I have a mechanical engineering degree from Canterbury and good relevant experience with industrial gearboxes in the UK, nevermind 50 years of car DIY. But the ongoing discussion is over on the InsideEVs Kona forum. I only post here (and SpeakEVs) to keep other owners in the loop. This forum is mostly US owners, SpeakEVs is British, InsideEvs Canadian and Aussie, reddit.com/r/KonaEV/ US and Canadian.

 

[Zes]

Thank you. Going to Amazon now to order the plug. I am not too happy with the dealer charge on this. I gues the next change will be DIY!

 

[Zes]

Kiwi, a question: I found the plug on Amazon. Does the same size go on the filler? If I am doing this, I might as well do both. Thanks..

 

[Kiwi]

Yes. Buying two just avoids having to reach for 2 different socket sizes. If you’re DIYing this grab a bag of Votex 18mm ID washers as well. You may have to search around for those because Amazon often suggests a separate vendor. Check the Q&A for a p/n.

 

[Clonbur]

Posting this in General Discussion since I don't see it fitting anywhere else. EDIT: Well, apparently someone thought it didn't fit where everyone might see it and instead buried it here. Oh well, what do I know?!

First, I give all credit to Kiwi for his suggestion and guidance for this task. Though this won't be a blow by blow description I hope it helps other EV owners. I'm going ro report my findings and leave it up to the Kona EV community to judge its value.

I drove the front wheels onto a makeshift set of ramps. I used these as it would make it easier to tilt the car in the suggested direction to drain and fill. Initially the right wheels were 3/4" higher than left. Not sure that is the ideal angle for draining.

Drained into an empty windshield wash jug.

Looks dark, right? Don't put too much emphasis on the contents after draining. I'll show what I mean in a bit.

I gave some thought to some photos of similar drain oil I've seen here so I decided to create a light box sort of thing to show a comparison of new to drain oil. Left side is drain oil. Right is new. Look close. There are no visible signs of metal or other contaminants. I scraped the bottom of the jug to be sure to get something in the sample.

After draining the oil i added the magnetic plug to the drain hole and filled with new oil until it spilled out of the fill hole. I then plugged the fill hole, backed the car off the ramps, repositioned some lumber to raise the left side approximately 3" higher than the right side and drove the car back on the ramps. Upon pulling the fill plug out I realized oil was spilling out so I added a floor jack to the project and raised the left another couple inches. There was probably less than an ounce left in the jug and most of it spilled out when I added it to the fill hole. Finally torqued the fill and drain plugs to 24 ft lbs.

So I'll leave it up to the experienced folks to tell how that went. However, I do suggest that submitting photos of jugs containing drain oil is not very telling. Let me know if spreading a thin layer of used oil on plate glass over white paper which is back-lit is not the answer. I know submitting a sample to a lab is probably preferred but I just don't feel that's necessary.

I'm interested in what the forum thinks, but, Yay, hooray, whoohoo! I'm still happy with this "salvage" car. And if I can swing a $7500 credit on my income taxes next winter I'll be jumping up and down spittin nickels!

Tim

 

[Kiwi]

As long as you've got something like 0.95-1.05 litre clean oil installed and a magnetic plug in place it's all good. That's the volume needed to reach the open edge of the filler hole after draining when the car is level. I can't quite untangle the path you've taken to fill it but I'm sure you understand the end result needed. Thx for the torque number, I'll try that value on my next inspection.

As for the oil condition there's no reason to have a UOA done because we know now with great confidence what's happening to all examples. Based on an owner who also changed it at low miles, only 142 km, I expect if you let that used oil sit for a couple of weeks some of the original colour may return and particles will drop to the bottom. If you attach a magnet to the container it will pull out the portion of those particles, only those were fresh enough to still be ferromagnetic, probably from about the last hour of driving.

In the big picture you've dodged a potential bullet down the road, the only Achilles heel in the Kona's design.

 

[Shiggy]

Just got the dealer to change the oil at 1,600 miles on my 21 Kona Electric. It looked black. I stick my fingers in it. Felt slippery and I did not feel any grit which would be associated with large metal particles in it. Dealer claims it is good and nothing to worry about. I plan to change again at 5,000 miles. I have attached a picture.

Kona57 - What did the dealer charge you? I'm planning to do the same. Thanks!

 

[Shiggy]

First off I want to thank Kiwi for all the time and expertise devoted to this issue and to our benefit. After reviewing this and several other related threads and attachments, I ordered the Votex M18.1x1.5MM magnetic oil drain plug and scheduled a gear oil change and installation of the drain plug at my local Hyundai dealer on June 24. My 2020 Kona EV Limited has 3,800 miles on it (6115 km), so I am a little late to the party, but better late than not at all. I will post something when I have more to add.

 

[Kiwi]

First off I want to thank Kiwi for all the time and expertise devoted to this issue and to our benefit. After reviewing this and several other related threads and attachments, I ordered the Votex M18.1x1.5MM magnetic oil drain plug and scheduled a gear oil change and installation of the drain plug at my local Hyundai dealer on June 24. My 2020 Kona EV Limited has 3,800 miles on it (6115 km), so I am a little late to the party, but better late than not at all. I will post something when I have more to add.

You're very welcome and I'm glad that a few owners are paying attention to a subject that not many want to know about. I have threads on InsideEVs, SpeakEVs, Ioniqforum.com and this one and very few owners seem to grasp the significance, yet are happy to vent about having to wait 2 months for a new drivetrain. Despite the unbelievability of Hyundai making a production mistake that has remained for 4 years, the evidence is overwhelming that they have.

Dealers of-course are not engineers rather just businesses stuck between the strict requirements of the importer and customers who just want what they paid for. Technicians and service advisors will look at the black oil, shrug and just assume that it's a one-off, or that it's normal because their diesel engines also do this. In this case we just have to nudge things along a little bit at our own expense, but also reap the likely benefits of better reliability.

You're not too late at 3,800 miles if you don't already hear a tapping noise. Lots of oil change reports (I have a list of about 25) are around that time and although the oil will be at "peak metal" it's never too late to change it to avoid further damage.

I'm always trying to avoid being too annoying but two items pertaining to a dealer install that I have to make sure are understood because I don't want anyone to suffer problems as a result. First, the neodymium magnet on the Votex magnetic drain plug is somewhat delicate in that if dropped directly on concrete it might crack, so handle appropriately. Additionally, the flange diameter is smaller against the soft aluminium Votex washer and the stainless threads are more slippery than the stock plug so the factory torque spec is too high. As you have seen, @Clonbur suggested 24 lb-ft where the spec is 33-44. Any good mechanic would know how tight is correct but it doesn't hurt to gently warn them about blindly following the factory spec.

 

[08crd]

With regard the Torque value @Kiwi, when my new Votex plugs arrive, I am thinking of taking them to a local engraver to get the torque setting engraved onto the plug head.
There is a small engraving booth at our local shopping centre, the guy does key cutting etc.
As long as the torque value is in large print, there really is no excuse for over tightening IMO.
I'm thinking of both 28 ft/lb and 38Nm, just in case the person with the torque wrench has only one scale.
What's your thoughts?

 

[Kiwi]

That's a great idea! I was even wondering why Votex don't do this as the torque is little related to the application threads but more based their choices of flange diameter and washer material.

@Clonbur recommended 24 ft-lbs instead of my (guessed at) 28 and I won't have a chance to try that myself for some months, unless I'm stuck for something to do one winter's day. I've set my torque wrench to 30 in the past and found it fine on the drain but excessive on the fill, so that's where the 28 guess came from. But actually testing a lower set value is good information I'm happy to take on board.
The other option is to write it on the gearbox with a Sharpie.

 

[08crd]

I may just try the 24ft/lb first and see what it feels like, I have done all my own mechanical work, motor bikes and cars and you can normally feel what is right.
So I will try the 24 and if it feels a bit light I will move it up, but i am getting ahead of myself, I still don't even have a build date. Ordered 1st of March, maybe they will send me a 2023 model.

 

[Zes]

I followed up with the dealer on why they charged me for 3 quarts of oil. Here is the answer:

"I have talked with my parts department in regards to your concern as well as the tech. He has shown me the Policy and procedure manual for you vehicle where it states directly from Hyundai to fill the reservoir with fluid until it come out of the weep hole. Your vehicle took 2.5 quarts of fluid roughly before it started to come out as instructed in the manual. I would be happy to print"

So I don't understand. Does the gearbox take 1 - 1.1 quarts or 2.5 quarts?

Can any of you who have done it measures how much came out and how much you put in? Thanks

 

[Kiwi]

I googled for the US owners manual and this is what it returned, the 2021 EV model, same gearbox as the 2022, then searched for 70W to find the oil capacity, as below. I also know from several oil changes myself that it takes 1.00 to 1.05 litre after draining. They have made a mistake.

Here's one for the 2022 gasoline version. The DCT uses the same 70W fluid but doesn't take that much either.