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Discussion Starter #1
I think I am bring in my Kona AWD Limited for bad braking. My 2013 Elantra GT had great rear brake bias. Both rotors were "blued" from proper break-in and correct rear brake bias. It was an impressive braking car for being a non-sports car with small brakes and oem pads. My Kona the rear brake rotors still have some machining directional lath markings, with zero blueing, even after some heavy braking. Est. bias 90% front /10% rear. I could only wish for 70/30. Has anyone else noticed this bad brake bias on their Kona? I looked at a couple of cars/suv at work, a Jeep suv and VW Jetta both have front and rear rotors that have evenly blued rotors, stating proper rear brake bias.

Do any of you who drive aggressively find this an issue? That is why my Kona seems so dangerous on heavy braking, with major nose dive and massive rear end lift. I can only imagine how this is going to go at the dealer. " Sorry, we found nothing wrong" I have to get some experts lined up, phone #s to NTSB and BBB, If I get that comment. I would assume the bias is done in the ABS computer and no longer in a external proportioning valve, hopefully they are allowed to adjust it with a laptop. We will see.....







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Don't know but why assume the worst case scenario first?

Maybe the key here is the word "aggressively." What is aggressive to you, can be different to someone else. I'm not pointing out a problem with you or your driving style in particular. I'm simply suggesting, it maybe easier to adjust your style of driving, then to go into the dealer complaining of an unknown brake bias issue.

You know this, metal alloys have different characteristics of wear, so the indicator isn't in the color of the brake rotor. Different pad compositions and brake rotor alloys, wear differently. However, there is a thing called, "inertial weight transfer." Plus, the height and forward weight of the Kona contributes to some of this, though not all of it's braking characteristics. I have noticed the weight transfer from rear to front under heavy braking but this is primarily due to having less than half the weight of the Kona just behind the drivers seat. 60%+ of the Kona's weight is from the rear of the drivers seat forward. There's just not enough weight in the rear of the Kona to keep it flat, under extremely heavy braking. This is not uncommon with other SUV's either.

Personally, I have found the brakes to be excellent IMHO.

I don't believe the service department will be able to tell you the actual percentage of brake bias forward to rear, as it's set from the factory. I'm not really sure if they can actually adjust the bias by way of the ODB II and ECU either. It's possible but unlikely the service department will have the capability to change embedded ECU programing which controls the ABS module. Obviously, this is entirely for safety reasons.

They can adjust the magnetic WSS or (Wheel Speed Sensor) but this is accomplished manually, thru the air gap on the reluctor. However, this is only required when the the sensor has built up rust and dirt, which causes the signal amplitude to decrease. The idea is to decrease the air gap to 10-20 thousands between the sensor and the reluctor to increase amplitude. However, this won't solve the light weight of Kona's rear lifting under heavy braking.

I wish you all the best with them but personal I believe, "you're barking up the wrong tree." The BBB doesn't have any idea. They can only ask to resolve a specific validated complaint, between a person and business. The NTSB doesn't deal in individual automobile complaints either. They respond only to Aircraft, Railroad and Public Transportation accidents. You'd be better off attempting to file a validated complaint with the NHTSA and or Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

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I agree. The OP seems to have an aggressive attitude on this issue already. I have over 2000 miles on my Kona and it has behaved as expected in quick stop situations. But I'm coming out of another SUV, so my expectations are not in comparison to a more evenly balanced sedan. You can only determine so much from simply looking at the brake components.

It's certainly possible that the OP does have a defective braking system and I would expect Hyundai to correct that. Certainly there is nothing wrong with having it looked at. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Don't know but why assume the worst case scenario first?

Maybe the key here is the word "aggressively." What is aggressive to you, can be different to someone else. I'm not pointing out a problem with you or your driving style in particular. I'm simply suggesting, it maybe easier to adjust your style of driving, then to go into the dealer complaining of an unknown brake bias issue.

You know this, metal alloys have different characteristics of wear, so the indicator isn't in the color of the brake rotor. Different pad compositions and brake rotor alloys, wear differently. However, there is a thing called, "inertial weight transfer." Plus, the height and forward weight of the Kona contributes to some of this, though not all of it's braking characteristics. I have noticed the weight transfer from rear to front under heavy braking but this is primarily due to having less than half the weight of the Kona just behind the drivers seat. 60%+ of the Kona's weight is from the rear of the drivers seat forward. There's just not enough weight in the rear of the Kona to keep it flat, under extremely heavy braking. This is not uncommon with other SUV's either.

Personally, I have found the brakes to be excellent IMHO.

I don't believe the service department will be able to tell you the actual percentage of brake bias forward to rear, as it's set from the factory. I'm not really sure if they can actually adjust the bias by way of the ODB II and ECU either. It's possible but unlikely the service department will have the capability to change embedded ECU programing which controls the ABS module. Obviously, this is entirely for safety reasons.

They can adjust the magnetic WSS or (Wheel Speed Sensor) but this is accomplished manually, thru the air gap on the reluctor. However, this is only required when the the sensor has built up rust and dirt, which causes the signal amplitude to decrease. The idea is to decrease the air gap to 10-20 thousands between the sensor and the reluctor to increase amplitude. However, this won't solve the light weight of Kona's rear lifting under heavy braking.

I wish you all the best with them but personal I believe, "you're barking up the wrong tree." The BBB doesn't have any idea. They can only ask to resolve a specific validated complaint, between a person and business. The NTSB doesn't deal in individual automobile complaints either. They respond only to Aircraft, Railroad and Public Transportation accidents. You'd be better off attempting to file a validated complaint with the NHTSA and or Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

Blessings and Peace



There you go, NHTSA:smile_big:. That's the right one, and you are right BBB would be used for a lemon law situation. I just got a bit upset when I was on a back hwy and some old lady who should not be driving because of her age pulled out in front of me and I had to do an aggressive panic stop. I knew the brakes were not up to snuff when I know you remember I called them out early on. Then add my other Hyundai car had fantastic over the top front to rear brake bias.


So yes after that incident I am quite peeved at the way my car performed. That is why I was/am admittedly over the top on this issue. I don't want to adjust my driving style. I do it safely for the most part, where cars are not around and not in heavy traffic, exit ramps and when I am first one at a light, I my kick her in gear so to speak. I am 55 years old, so I am no longer driving like I am 18. But I still am still having fun with my car and the years of sport driving under my belt, I will drive more aggressively then the average person. As far as weight distribution, not much different then my Elantra. You should know better then anyone when you don't have proper rear bias it is glaringly clear to you. I am not expecting mid engine weight distribution, I just want a safe car when they designed the car for being sport sub SUV. If it was an Accent then ......I guess maybe bad braking would be ooookkkkk .....NO!:wink:

I did say we will see, but like the guy with FTC issue why do I just see a default action with, "Sorry, we found nothing wrong" One of the reasons I bought this new Kona was because after my Elantra GT had a new motor because of the Hyundai tick of death, the new motor was a "lifeless slug" I gave it time to break-in but still a lifeless slug. I brought it in and guess what 'Sorry, we found nothing wrong with it"

It's not like I am dealing with Audi, or even VW for that matter, were the manufacture and some of the dealers workers know their product has to meet a certain performance level and high level of the owners of the cars expect it. Hyundai .....while starting to WANTING to become more performance orientated, at this point, not so much. Especially the dealers workers. Again we will see, I am calling for an appointment today. I will be talking hopefully to the service manager that I dealt with with my Elantra, because he knows I bought a Kona specifically because I was so let down by the new motor in the Elantra. Hopefully he will go the extra mile for me and bring Hyundai into this where he would just normally just say "Sorry, we found nothing wrong"




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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I went through the cycle with Hyundai, though the dealer and we found a 75 to 100 deg lower difference in rear temp lower from mine to another Kona 1.6T AWD car. So the dealer gave me a the Hyundai # to call. I said the key words"I don't feel my car is safe" and got moved up to a case worker. She was a Korean lady that did not even know what "bedding in the brakes" meant. After 10 min explaining it to her along with my findings , I got the feeling all they care about is if it stops for Grandma, they have ZERO and I mean ZERO interest if anyone is sport driving it, and found out a rear brake bias issue. She did say an engineer may look over the case if they were bored nd just for his self knowledge wanted to look at advance complaints for a new model, but we will do nothing , case closed!!



I do have to say my dealer's service manager was right on it, and spent 1.5 hours with me testing. I worked with him when my 2013 Elantra GT 1.8 motor, that had the "Hyundai Click of Death"at 14,000 miles and I received a new long block. That long block was an American version where my original was a Korean version. It should of been the same motor design. But even after a 5,000 break-in and a proper and hard one at that, it was 20 hp short and just a DOG of a slow motor. That is the reason I bought the Kona, I just hated to drive the Elantra GT because it had no power. Of course, they found nothing wrong with it. But I just got sick of hitting 6,000 rpm to do simple slow pass of a car on the hwy, that the other motor had no problem doing without going down two gears and redlining it. Well, NO problem with the Kona turbo, with that turbo it excels at hwy passing. You could be going 70 mph and put it in sport mode and you are passing that car very fast for a 4 cylinder car.




I will be looking into adding rear Tuscan brakes this winter, if that is possible.


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Discussion Starter #7
I forgot to update this.....With the Eibach lowering springs the brake bias became better in the rear. Not anywhere where it should be, but far better that the nose doesn't dive and the rear de-weights like the OEM springs did. I will wait for EBC to make rear slotted rotors and try that before looking into new complete brakes, now that it a couple of notches better.



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Maybe you can try a different pad/rotor composition to alter the "grab" characteristics.. might get you closer to what your looking for...
I find the brakes to grab to quickly, non linear.. but they do work well and haven't noticed excessive nose dive or a braking balance problem..
but I haven't tracked this car nor do I intend to or would want to .. This is a fun quick little car to drive... you're expecting a lot based on its designed purpose
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Yep, that is exactly what I am waiting for with the EBC or any other slotted diskd for that matter. I am partial to EBC coating. If I can get some of the gasses to escape between the pad and rotor that may increase more reliable friction in the rear. I am looking into braided brake lines too, that will most likely need to be custom made. I also first want to use the Hyundai pads, because believe it or not Hyundai has well designed pad material. My Hyundai Elantra GT had unbelievable rear brake bias ( most likely a mistake on their part ha ha ha ) that could stop great and would not get brake fade with sport driving, and not very much dust. For that car, I would of bought OEM pads if it needed a brake job, just because I would not want to ruin a good thing. As far as nose dive and rear lift, the average person doesn't notice stuff like that. You may in a panic stop, that is where I first noticed it.

As far a expecting too much for it's design purpose, I don't think so. The car has ABS and stability control as did my Elantra GT and that car had a high percentage more rear brake bias and it broke fine on snow and ice without the ABS and stability control kicking in. When you came up to a stop sign, just driving normal and braked for it, you would actually feel rear braking. That feel went through all the way to full track style braking. The 2013 Elantra GT with a 1.8 liter and an ATF auto trans was hardly a hot hatch. BUT a Kona Turbo with 235/45 18 (Honda Civic Si has 235/40 18) and semi-stiff sprung and larger than average swaybars and 4 wheel disc, it IS expected to be designed correctly for sport driving. Which they did not do it correctly. They gave it the grandma and grandpa brake bias firmware, not the sport firmware.



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They are already available.

The Korean Car Specialists

StopTech

Stainless Steel lines are obviously in the works.

Blessings and Peace
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am trying OEM brake sizing first. Shark only has front brake kits and that is not where I want to spend a big chunk of money. I just dropped $$ on a new set of winter tires and a set of summer rims and in February I will be buying another set of tires to go on my new summer rims. EBC said they were working on the rear Kona brakes, the rear AWD Kona is a completely new brake size/design for Hyundai and gets a new FMSI ID #, Where the AWD 1.6T Kona used the latest front Turbo Veloster brakes and as such, many option are already available rotor and pads.



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