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I don’t disagree with you. The reason why I never pay even 1 cent above MSRP. It gets even worse at the top echelon of the car market….

Market adjustments over MSRP …. You do know that there are idiots out there paying them. As long as these morons pay the markup the longer dealerships will charge for them.
I don’t blame the dealerships. I blame the buyers.
 

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The Golf R is actually now a $50-60k vehicle due to nasty dealer markups. It’ll be a cold day in **** when you find one for $44k.
The Kona N just came out this year, it will take some time for the aftermarket to get going. The Abarth has been around since at least 2012…. Those cars have been dirt cheap on the used market so of course you’ll have all these enthusiasts snatching them up and modding them, driving up the demand of the aftermarket.
There are 4 VW dealers within 20 miles of me. One had what I was looking for on the showroom with ADM on sticker of $7,500. I was not there for 3 minutes and manager walked up and said the ADM was $5,000. So, this will not last forever and next year something like 5,000 are said to be produced. I was not ready to buy on the day I was there so did not discuss price any further, I just wanted to take a look at the car. I have purchased 2 VW from this location prior to ownership change.

One of the other VW dealers local is selling at MSRP. A guy I met on VW forum is getting one from this dealer. His car is at the Jacksonville port now. So should be at Winter Park dealer soon.

The Abarth is 2013. I ordered it built. $27,001 out the door. They were dirt cheap to start with. This car is 2,600 lbs with some weight loss and modified to ~250HP. It is without a doubt the most fun car to drive under $100,000 IMO. I made a mistake when I sold it, tried to buy it back but was already sold again.

I was not referring to what is available in the aftermarket. I am talking about forum traffic.

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Automotive lighting
 

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I don’t blame the dealerships. I blame the buyers.
I blame both, since it takes two to tango. But you're correct that the buyer is the one who can either eliminate or perpetuate that practice. I'd NEVER pay a penny above MSRP. And that includes any shenanigans, like forcing you to buy 'paint/interior protection' crap at an exorbitant price (typically 2 grand here), an 'accessory package', or any other crap like that.
 

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I blame both, since it takes two to tango. But you're correct that the buyer is the one who can either eliminate or perpetuate that practice. I'd NEVER pay a penny above MSRP. And that includes any shenanigans, like forcing you to buy 'paint/interior protection' crap at an exorbitant price (typically 2 grand here), an 'accessory package', or any other crap like that.
Paint and interior protection............... You can buy better in a bottle yourself. Worth nothing basically.
 

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Exactly. And what pisses me off is those doing that tell you they're not doing any markups, when they're doing exactly that but in a more deceptive way. At least I respect those telling you up front what they're doing. And when you confront them, they just tell you everybody is doing it. Geez. And that's not true, at least my local dealer is an exception. And other than a reasonable $125 doc fee, they didn't charge me a penny more, other than legitimate TTL charges. And same thing with the G70, but returned that one. Should be the same thing with the Kona N later this week.

Hey guys, so nobody can tell me what's the speed at 2K rpm in 8th gear with the 2.0T? And if the oil drain plug is 14mm x 1.5? Thx.
 

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There are 4 VW dealers within 20 miles of me. One had what I was looking for on the showroom with ADM on sticker of $7,500. I was not there for 3 minutes and manager walked up and said the ADM was $5,000. So, this will not last forever and next year something like 5,000 are said to be produced. I was not ready to buy on the day I was there so did not discuss price any further, I just wanted to take a look at the car. I have purchased 2 VW from this location prior to ownership change.

One of the other VW dealers local is selling at MSRP. A guy I met on VW forum is getting one from this dealer. His car is at the Jacksonville port now. So should be at Winter Park dealer soon.

The Abarth is 2013. I ordered it built. $27,001 out the door. They were dirt cheap to start with. This car is 2,600 lbs with some weight loss and modified to ~250HP. It is without a doubt the most fun car to drive under $100,000 IMO. I made a mistake when I sold it, tried to buy it back but was already sold again.

I was not referring to what is available in the aftermarket. I am talking about forum traffic.

View attachment 6922
You are mistaken about that…. That title belongs to the Kona N ;)
 

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I bought a Kona N 2k under MSRP but could not find an Elantra N my preferred N model in my area. The extra money off was such a great deal I signed and drove away happy yesterday. My only gripe is rear leg room. I came from a 2020 Hyundai Elantra Sport and prior to that a Saab Aero Sportscombi. The Kona N is leaps and bounds better performance wise.
 

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You got it 2K under MSRP? Where exactly? That's unheard of, so you did GREAT :). I'm getting it as MSRP, and consider myself lucky, as all other dealers 500 miles around are tacking at least 2 grand over list. But I'm slightly disappointed at the $36K+ sticker without HUD, power passenger seat, ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, and who knows what else other markets get. Oh well. Hope at least it doesn't give us any trouble. And that my wife likes it.
 

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You got it 2K under MSRP? Where exactly? That's unheard of, so you did GREAT :). I'm getting it as MSRP, and consider myself lucky, as all other dealers 500 miles around are tacking at least 2 grand over list. But I'm slightly disappointed at the $36K+ sticker without HUD, power passenger seat, ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, and who knows what else other markets get. Oh well. Hope at least it doesn't give us any trouble. And that my wife likes it.
I was hoping to get the blue one in my area but they wanted $5k above msrp. I picked mine up at Quirk Hyundai in Bangor, ME. Fantastic dealership. The best experience I have ever had at a dealership. They were friendly and treated me great.
 

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In a process of getting a Kona N right now, at this point of stage, they are charging me 2k over MSRP+++ BUT I managed to get 2k more for my trade in than if I was selling at a local Carmax so I'm happy with the process so far. Used car market being so screwed up I'm getting like 10k over its actual value for my trade in so I guess I'm getting a killer deal, even thinking about getting 100k extended bumper to bumper plus 10 yr maintenance plan since monthly payment is way below my current payment
PS: A dealer closest to my house wanted $46,750.00 otd I said no thank you lol
 

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I got mine for $500 under MSRP. I found a dealership that doesn’t charge markups (they’re out there, you just have to look) and they were running a $500 off, 2.75% APR deal on the Kona N. Elantra Ns in my area are generally going for 3-5k over MSRP, but it seems like the Konas aren’t. I personally would never pay over MSRP on principal, but that’s just me. I’m not going to tell other people how to spend their money.
 
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