First the good news - you presumably have a really long warranty.

The bad news is that it sounds like a failing bearing either in the motor or gear reducer. The noise is unmistakable. It should be silent with only perhaps a Star-Trek like whine from the electronics.

Given that it's present at higher speeds I'd place my bet on the motor but I'm not certain. The gear reducer "wheel of fortune" tends to show up at lower speeds, almost always during regen. But it doesn't matter, it needs to be repaired at some point in the next few months. I think it's already loud enough for them to hear - which is a common stumbling block when reporting these issues.

The TSB is here in case you haven't seen it. The Kia version here has sample noises.

This is why I've been encouraging owners to change the gear oil early for years, sometimes attracting less than pleasant responses. But that preventative maintenance is more important when the warranty is short, 3 years in my case.

 

The bad news is that it sounds like a failing bearing either in the motor or gear reducer.

Thanks for breaking it gently. I think I only have until November on the warranty. Haven't taken this vehicle to a dealer yet. Ironically, the reason I needed a new car was because of a failing bearing in the Toyota's transmission. Sigh.

To be clear, the links you posted are about the reduction gear issue, but you think this is probably something else?

Nice trick with the brake lights. And good to know that they come on when I feel like I'm braking!

Thanks very much for this timely advice!

 

Regarding the brake lights, I installed a "tell-tale" about a year ago to resolve these questions. It was very easy to do as I could tap off the third light in the hatch cover. A bright red LED poked through the plastic, wired to the third light via a dropping resistor. It's very useful when I have other cars following me closely on downhills so I can annoy them just the right amount.

In short:
Level 0 and 1: no brake light

Level 2 and 3: brake light on with gas pedal off

But, if I use the left-paddle-hold to come to a complete stop the light is on only until the car is stopped, then it inexplicable goes out. Kind of dumb because, well, people half asleep behind me.

But I checked the vehicle equipment rules (in NZ) and it complies because the light is only required on the "service brakes", meaning the friction brakes.

When I use Auto Hold the lights behave as they should and stay on.

 

You're welcome of course. Noises like this show up on forums about every 2-3 weeks, most often reported on Reddit, so you're not alone. There is also quite a lot of community experience with this.

Both TSBs cover both motor and gear reducer noises. Hyundai and Kia treat the motor and GRU as "parts" that are replaced as required, never repaired.

The TSBs outline a procedure that needs to be followed for the dealer to recover the warranty costs from the importer. It starts with them sending a sound sample and getting approval to start. I'd almost bet that the sample you've already done would do the job.

First a bracket is replaced which almost never fixes the problem. If the noise persists then the powertrain is removed, motor and GRU separated and the noise isolated to one or the other unit. In some cases both are replaced, either because both are faulty or (from one report) the technicians are not trained as how to bolt them back together again.

The repair can take weeks or months in same cases but in the end no one with a warranty has been left hanging as best as I know. I'd suggest some patience with them initially as not all dealers have done these repairs. You could ask around (Reddit and/or FaceBook will get the fastest response) about which local dealer might be a better choice. If you need a loan car it's often provided but that seems to depend on the dealer. Hyundai Motor America may be receptive if needed.

The Kona has been out 6 years now, mine is one of the earliest outside of S. Korea. Pretty much all the more common defects are known and once this has been resolved the remaining items are not nearly as expensive to fix should they arise.

 

I'm asking about local dealers on Reddit. It occurs to me: this is powertrain stuff, right? So it should have a 10-year/100K-mile warranty in the U.S. I guess I'll have to call Hyundai to get the exact warranty dates. I don't see them when I log in to MyHyundai.

 

Just saw your post and up-ticked it! Hope that brings results.

Regarding the powertrain warranty Kia Niro owners have experienced issues but I haven't heard many complaints about Hyundai. I don't stay informed about US warranties myself but do see comments now and again.

 

If you want to ask about dealer experiences on FaceBook but don't have an account or use it, just ask, I can do it. There are a few SD-based members there.

 

Thanks. I applied to join the FB group.

Here for reference two more recordings. For the first, I dropped the phone on the floor, thinking that might pick up the noise better. The second is at lower speed (40mph).

 

Yeah, the noise is unmistakable in this case. I've heard a hundred and never been more sure.

The GRU noise is more like in this video after 0:16, a tapping at low speeds. That's why I think it's the motor - but again, it's academic as the dealer will replace each as a unit as required.

This video from an diligent Ukrainian mechanic is the most complete rundown of bearings causing noises in the first-gen Kona/Niro. But the noises are difficult to hear. Lack of access to replacement parts means the originals have to be repaired.

 

I'm curious to know when Hyundai/Kia replace the motor and reduction gearbox, are the newer versions of the both of them not failing? I have a friend wanting to buy one and have told them to steer clear because of the wheel of misfortune.

 

Update on the U.S. warranty: only the first owner gets 100K / 10 years on the powertrain. As a second owner, I'm limited to 60K / 5 years on everything. That expires in December.

No progress yet on Reddit, Facebook, or reaching the service department at the closest dealer.

 

I haven't seen your post appear on FB yet, perhaps a mod has to approve it first? A shame no one on Reddit answered as that's usually the busiest site.

 

I haven't seen your post appear on FB yet

I was waiting on a notice from FB that I'd been admitted to the group, but I see I'm in, so I just posted.

 

Just saw it! Fingers crossed.

 

Just heard back from the closest dealer. Secured a $198 diagnosis appointment 12 days from now. They expect that to take 2-5 days. When I said I might call other dealers to see if they are less backed up, she said that's fine, but from what she's heard, others are scheduling 2-3 months out.

 

I'm curious to know when Hyundai/Kia replace the motor and reduction gearbox, are the newer versions of the both of them not failing? I have a friend wanting to buy one and have told them to steer clear because of the wheel of misfortune.

 

There's been no evidence to date that Hyundai have made any changes to correct the gear reducer issues. I'm aware of two owners that on their 3rd. Recent photos of very-early oil changes show the usual cloud of particles.

As for the motor I've heard of one owner on their 3rd but overall that part seems to be more reliable now.

 

After a week at the dealer for diagnosis, my service writer called today. noise duplicated at front end, will replace drive gear unit. Will order bracket array, motor gear. Parts 2-4 days out. A 14-hour, $5000 - $6000 repair, covered under 5-year, 60K-mile warranty. They will provide a rental car from their in-house fleet when one becomes available, which Hyundai will cover.

So that means they're replacing the gear reducer and not the motor, right?

 

And more importantly, what can I do to keep this from happening again? Am I starting from scratch so I need to do several oil changes? Would that have prevented this at 42K miles?

I drove my Toyota for 22 years before it had transmission problems. I can't see owning cars that don't last five years before major work is required.

 

Picked up the repaired car today, two weeks after dropping off for diagnosis. They replaced the gear unit and motor bracket but not the motor. Noise is definitely better but do I still hear a faint whine? @Kiwi, is that the "Star Trek" sound that you mentioned as being normal?

Notes from the repair document:

confirmed noise coming from front end recommend install bracket kit
per tsb 22-EV-001H-1 and replace drive gear
REPAIR PERFORM REPARS AS APPROVED

36930F03 KIT INSP&REPL+REDUCTION GEAR REPL (3 TEST DRIVES)
9764 WH
1 36930-0E710-FFF BRKT ASSY-MOTOR MTG KIT B
1 44500-18EA1 GEAR DRIVE UNIT ASSY
FC:
PART#: 36930-0E710-FFF
COUNT: 1

42266 confirmed noise coming front end, replaced motor bracket and
roll stop per tsb 22-EV-001H-1 after replacement noise still heard
removed drive gear and tested drive motor with drill. passed test.
replaced drive gear per tsb 36930F03 8.80, installed motor bracket kit
and drive gear after repairs noise did not return

 

I think it's fine. That's normal gear whine and mine is the same. If the motor bearings were faulty you'd hear a far less pleasant noise.

Be sure and change the oil to avoid a repeat performance. I'd do that by 500 miles and again at 1500. Theoretically any garage with a lift can do this easy task. You'll need 2-3 US qts Redline MT-LV. The required fill is 1.05 litre. Plugs torqued to 30 lb-ft, reuse the original gaskets.

They saved you some trouble by ordering the GRU right up front because changing the bracket alone never helps and you didn't have to wait for the GRU to arrive. The TSB states the official process that must be followed for them to receive their compensation and they've done that to the letter. Plus they've 'passed' the motor with the drill test outlined in the TSB.

 

Great info, thanks. I was a little annoyed that it took a week to diagnose but once they did that, the parts acquisition and repair went pretty fast.

Re. changing the oil: is it 500 km or 500 miles? And why so much oil? It should 1.1 US quarts per liter, right?

 

Based on what I've heard from three other owners who have done this I'd leave it till 500 miles. Try to drive a bit more gently if possible which might avoid knocking off any large wear particles. Speed is not a big factor, just high acceleration and regen.

You'll want to carry out two oil changes. If you (or your mechanic) doesn't spill any you can get away with 1 qt each change. The added 0.1 litre can either be ignored or taken out of the old oil, or use any other gear oil. But if it's pumped in while the car is on a lift there will be some 'spillage' and that's why I've suggested buying 3 qts. At least it's less expensive in the US and off the shelf locally from a speed shop. I'd pay $60 each here and have to order it.

But, when I did a search for Redline it's not readily available in San Diego either so it might be easier to buy this Bel-ray oil which is highly reputable and shipped in litres. 75W will be fine, give them a call. It's dirt cheap as well.

 

Some is normal, most people just turn up the radio, I'm the only person I know who doesn't turn on thr radio at all, that's how I know some noise in regen mode is normal

 

Got it--you were allowing for two changes with 3 quarts. I actually have about 3/4 quart of Red Line MT-90 left over from my Toyota MR2 transmission oil change. I got that from O'Reilly, which also sells MT-LV (ship to store or delivery). $24/quart.

A service writer at Hyundai said he's never heard of someone changing the GRU oil and doesn't think there is even a service code for it. But I'd probably go for a less expensive private garage anyway.

I like to think I drive pretty smoothly except for sudden stops to avoid unexpected moves by others. However I have been running at Eco and Regen 3 (with speed limits turned off). The car was over four years old with 40K miles when I bought it. The issue started around 41.5K, possibly after an emergency stop. Or maybe the previous owner always ran Regen 1 or 2 and my use of 3 brought the issue to the fore. Would 2 be less, um, abrasive?

 

It looks like Redline MT-LV was scarce everywhere a few months ago but easier to source now. Back then our local O'Reilly couldn't get it though it was in their catalog. Back then I ordered it from Summit Racing. Today I ordered two more quarts for another change (flush) soon from Bimmerworld with free shipping. The price seems to be $23.10 everywhere.
I checked prices at https://www.froogle.com which is a website operated by Google.

Our Kona has 39K miles. I'm not sure the GRU had ever been serviced before I did it last weekend. The drain/fill plugs were pristine (outside, no tool marks). Just the slightest bit of metalllic sheen in the oil pan afterwards. My gearbox is quiet except under hard regen. It sounds exaclty like OP's new GRU.

I was defaulting to Level 2 regen but last weekend changed that to Level 1 as the default. Of course whatever the auto regen doesn't get done I'll supplement with the brakes and that will be blended friction brakes and more regen so I'm not sure changing down to Level 1 really makes that much difference.

My main motivation was to be smoother. When In Reg 2 - there can be a a lurch when I let off the gas quickly and my engineer brain wonders if I'm momentarily binding the gears in such a way I'll damage them in the long run. Short of like a rough shift in a manual transmission car. Not a problem in the short term but in the long term, the transmission might be noisier for it. Since I plan to keep this car for the long term, I worry about stuff like that.

If I'm coasting down the mtn roads around here I'll bump the reg up to L2 or L3 with the paddles. My daily driving though is on rolling hills, not steep mtn roads.

Really enjoying this little car.

 

No need to avoid using Level 3 after breaking-in the new GRU, just take it easy during the first 1,000 miles and use the other level settings if practical. It's my suggestion based on minimal but not zero evidence from the experiences of other owners.

Dealers globally seem to be unaware that Hyundai's Mobis division made a minor design mistake that (IMO) causes this problem. It's been widely reported that there is no dealer service code for this oil change and in many cases they use one for an automatic transmission change, over $400 in any currency. One had used a rear-axle differential oil change, US$140, in N. County as it happens. Had the GRU been correctly designed the oil would last the life of the car and the factory recommendation of an 'inspection' at 90,000 miles would have been adequate.

The gen-2 Kona (2024+) and Niro's (2023+) powertrain design was outsourced, based on media reports from several years ago and the resulting changes (3x more oil and a filter) essentially seems to have negated the issues caused by the still-present loose magnet.

The MT-90 (75W-90) you have is a GL4 and ok to use to top off any oil change up to about 100 ml. So, you can use that with the MT-LV.

 

Absolutely, audible gear whine is a characteristic of oil being too viscous and over time that could be damaging to gear teeth. It's difficult to select an optimum oil for a gearbox catering for the massive range of tooth-pitch speeds and ambient temperatures found in an EV gear reducer. I checked the OEM choice of 70W years ago and found that it is the correct viscosity for the top speed of the Kona.

The OEM oil color is described on the datasheet as "clear brown". I don't believe there is any chance that it has unusual additives, especially moly. Every other current EV (including the gen-2 model Kona) uses an ATF which has the same viscosity and EP rating as a 70W GL4 gear oil.

The mild conditions here in NZ allow me to stretch that to a thicker oil and I'm optimistic that it's working well. I need to cover more distance and check the condition, but that won't be until March 2025 at the earliest.

NR = not recommended simply because they are not described as a "full synthetic".

 

The first procedure I wrote in that post you've linked hasn't changed, noting that I've only used the ramp method and rolling the car off momentarily while filling. The video from RTS uniquely placed the ramps in a depressed part of ground to keep the car level. It's not mentioned that this is an opportunity most of us won't have.

Note that the posts in that thread reflect owner's individual experiences and none of us are under any obligation to document the perfect universal procedure. Using a workshop is always the safer option for those who don't have the required tools and experience. I suspect even Pep Boys could do this given brief instructions and adequate oil supplied so they can pump it in from underneath. The shop time should be around 45 minutes.

If you're spritely and slim it could work with a single floor jack and safety stand but it won't be fun finding the right reach and angle to crack the plugs loose. Any process will be safer and go smoother if every step is conservatively planned and all tools required are on hand. Improvising on the fly is how people get injured and the Kona is a heavy car for the size.

The oil fill opening is located at the rear-left end (viewed from the driver's seat) of the GRU casing. If that corner is elevated a measured quantity can be used rather needing to fill until it spills while level. The filler plug can be re-installed finger-tight from above. Konas plugs have had needed two socket sizes over the years (24 then perhaps 23mm?) and that will need to be checked beforehand which can be done from above. The stock plugs and the Toyota variant can be torqued to 30-33 lbs-ft and the Votex to 22 because it has a narrower shoulder and is made of slippery stainless-steel. New washers are not normally required.

I've done the job six times now with ramps and am comfortable with the method I've described. I'm reluctant to take any shortcuts that could risk either safety or finding myself in a pickle that needs to be resolved under duress.

I had a quick search for ramps at O'Reilly but the choice looks dismal. Pep Boys don't even have an online catalog. Walmart is better but I can't see that buying suitable ramps is less costly than going to a local workshop.

If you purchase ramps be sure they can handle the approx 2000 lbs at the front axle and they have a means to stop them from skidding on a concrete surface when the car is driven up. A rubber footing at the low end is typically the solution for that. Another required feature is a means of minimising the risk of driving off the ends of the ramps. In any case you should use a large mirror positioned again the garage wall to view the driver's side ramp or better yet another human to help position the car correctly. One foot on each pedal is effective to move the car slowly and with sufficient precision. At the top apply enter Neutral, slowly release the foot brake to let the car settle into position, then apply the parking brake, then select Park in that order. That will minimise the chance of hearing a loud (but harmless) clunk when driving off the ramps.

 

Thanks @Kiwi for the detailed reply. Oddly my question (post #32 in this thread) seems to have disappeared. Did I break a forum rule by posting an outside link? I'll re-post the link to the other thread at least:

https://www.hyundaikonaforum.com/threads/reduction-gear-oil-change-seems-to-be-a-must-in-a-kona-ev.5198/?post_id=44518&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-44518

My street is on a slope so I might be able to find an appropriate place to go up a ramp and get level. In fact we have 6" curbs so if only needed to raise one side, and if that's enough, I could just drive up a curb.

Maybe I'll call my private mechanic and ask if this is something they could handle.

 

It's visible to me but I simply failed to see it! You can see I responded on Reddit at the time and nothing has changed.

I'd forgotten about the ever-popular drive-up-on-the-curb technique, perhaps because it's not commonly seen here and our curbs are short. That could work very well.

I think you've got good ideas now and understand your options.