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I read the whole thing. Interesting the lack of a temp sensor for the clutches, Its a computer model, which suggest i need to figure out how to add a temp sensor to the transmission.

Also, its good to know that the dct is faster by 4-6% in a 0-60mph then the 6speed auto.
 

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Some added information on the DCT.

If looking up info on it, there are 2 model #'s associated with the Kona's 1.6t DCT, the D7UF1 and the D034S7. Both are correct, D7UF1 is commonly found worldwide, while the D034S7 seems used more on internal document within Hyundai and its production companies. Example, Page 4: https://www.hyundai-transys.com/download/product/summary/sum_01.pdf

The transmission uses a "FlexRay" Communication system, instead of Can-Bus communication system used else where in the vehicle. Though both Flexray and Canbus are used by the tcm (transmission control module), the majority, about 85% is Flexray. Why that's important, is people like me in particular, tend to modify the transmission or its wiring to get a specific result. Check Table I for a breakdown of the difference.
http://www.talbotsystems.com/documents/Comparision_of_FieldBus_Systems_CAN_TTCAN_FlexRay_and_LIN_in_Passenger_Vehicles.pdf

 

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So @1fastKona should I be getting my hopes up that somebody with common sense (ie. you) will be working out a way to get the DCT to perform the way it should rather than letting down the great engine??
 

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So @1fastKona should I be getting my hopes up that somebody with common sense (ie. you) will be working out a way to get the DCT to perform the way it should rather than letting down the great engine??

Well, that depends, How should it work? The Gamma is not a particularly great engine, all 32 variations of it.
 

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Well, that depends, How should it work? The Gamma is not a particularly great engine, all 32 variations of it.
It seems to me the 1.6T has good torque, and with manual shifting you can get it to use the lower revs and accelerate smoothly. The takeoff is terrible though as the clutch seems to engage on a fixed timer without much regard for throttle position, meaning if I try to accelerate quickly it just revs hard and doesn't actually take off any faster in first than if I applied medium accelerator. So if I could adjust the pattern I'd make the comfort setting shift lower in the rev range and pull harder without downshifting, and in all modes would make the clutch engage according to revs matching vehicle speed. For normal acceleration that would be something like 1500RPM. For hard acceleration it might slip to 2000, but only if it proved faster. Can you tell from the documentation what the current logic for the clutch release is?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have not come across any information on the programming used For the DCT. Hyundai did design a non-linear motor/actuator for the clutch engagement action for the DCT, One of the main differences to newer versions than the ones used a few years ago, that and the programming has Improved along with ECM speed and capacity.
if the clutch engages at a fixed rpm, its always as low as possible and possibly not fully engaged depending on throttle position, engine load, etc.. a slow Start on a flat level surface engages with minimal slip and is barely noticeable.. a Quick start doesn’t bog down and will allow the clutch to slip for more rpms.. The 1st gear ratio is the main reason for the quick clutch engagement.. It’s geared very low for this reason with minimal ratio changes for the first 4 gears.. When I drive the car “normally”, I am amazed at how good the gearing, rpms, shifting speed all works together for almost seamless operation.. minimal to almost no slippage or jerking.. aggressive driving Is handled pretty good too, IMO. Maybe more slippage than necessary at times.. but it gets it mostly right and sequential shifts are fast.. downshifts are not as well controlled especially when done quickly or skipping more than one gear.. the DCT hesitates and it gets messy.. I still prefer a manual !!! But I do like not having to shift and getting nowhere in heavy traffic.

It seems to me the 1.6T has good torque, and with manual shifting you can get it to use the lower revs and accelerate smoothly. The takeoff is terrible though as the clutch seems to engage on a fixed timer without much regard for throttle position, meaning if I try to accelerate quickly it just revs hard and doesn't actually take off any faster in first than if I applied medium accelerator. So if I could adjust the pattern I'd make the comfort setting shift lower in the rev range and pull harder without downshifting, and in all modes would make the clutch engage according to revs matching vehicle speed. For normal acceleration that would be something like 1500RPM. For hard acceleration it might slip to 2000, but only if it proved faster. Can you tell from the documentation what the current logic for the clutch release is?
 

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I have not come across any information on the programming used For the DCT. Hyundai did design a non-linear motor/actuator for the clutch engagement action for the DCT, One of the main differences to newer versions than the ones used a few years ago, that and the programming has Improved along with ECM speed and capacity.
if the clutch engages at a fixed rpm, its always as low as possible and possibly not fully engaged depending on throttle position, engine load, etc.. a slow Start on a flat level surface engages with minimal slip and is barely noticeable.. a Quick start doesn’t bog down and will allow the clutch to slip for more rpms.. The 1st gear ratio is the main reason for the quick clutch engagement.. It’s geared very low for this reason with minimal ratio changes for the first 4 gears.. When I drive the car “normally”, I am amazed at how good the gearing, rpms, shifting speed all works together for almost seamless operation.. minimal to almost no slippage or jerking.. aggressive driving Is handled pretty good too, IMO. Maybe more slippage than necessary at times.. but it gets it mostly right and sequential shifts are fast.. downshifts are not as well controlled especially when done quickly or skipping more than one gear.. the DCT hesitates and it gets messy.. I still prefer a manual !!! But I do like not having to shift and getting nowhere in heavy traffic.
What I've noticed in mine is that if I try and accelerate fast by simply putting my foot down, the engine revs high, and and clutch slips almost all the time in first and is only matching revs by the time it goes for second. And in the process it is not quick. On the other hand if I'm stopped on a slight slope so the hill-break is active, then take my foot off the brake and wait patently for a few seconds, the clutch starts it's process of engaging and creeping. The engine seems to pull much harder at lower RPM and no slip that at higher RPM with lots of clutch slip. In manual mode I can manually shift to second before first gear revs get very high, and the end result seems to be a faster acceleration at lower RPM in each gear, and minimal engine noise.

So I'd like the DCT to accelerate like that on all occasions, less clutch slip and better matching of revs to speed as it engages as early as possible.
 

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I haven't noticed the excessive slipping you feel in 1st.. I dont see how it could slip for too long as 1st is so low and goes by quick.. I'm going to get on it next time I get the opportunity and see if I notice any excessive slippage..
My driveway is a steep incline and then a turn into the garage.. So going up from a stop, clutch slips as it should.. but then when I let off to turn into the garage, it fully engages and wants to go when i'm still slowing.. Thats about the only time it's not a "natural" manual move.. I'm very tolerant of the DCT because its not the tried and true conventional kind.. I like its direct feel and quirkiness... adds to the character of the car..

What I've noticed in mine is that if I try and accelerate fast by simply putting my foot down, the engine revs high, and and clutch slips almost all the time in first and is only matching revs by the time it goes for second. And in the process it is not quick. On the other hand if I'm stopped on a slight slope so the hill-break is active, then take my foot off the brake and wait patently for a few seconds, the clutch starts it's process of engaging and creeping. The engine seems to pull much harder at lower RPM and no slip that at higher RPM with lots of clutch slip. In manual mode I can manually shift to second before first gear revs get very high, and the end result seems to be a faster acceleration at lower RPM in each gear, and minimal engine noise.

So I'd like the DCT to accelerate like that on all occasions, less clutch slip and better matching of revs to speed as it engages as early as possible.
 

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I haven't noticed the excessive slipping you feel in 1st.. I dont see how it could slip for too long as 1st is so low and goes by quick.. I'm going to get on it next time I get the opportunity and see if I notice any excessive slippage..
My driveway is a steep incline and then a turn into the garage.. So going up from a stop, clutch slips as it should.. but then when I let off to turn into the garage, it fully engages and wants to go when i'm still slowing.. Thats about the only time it's not a "natural" manual move.. I'm very tolerant of the DCT because its not the tried and true conventional kind.. I like its direct feel and quirkiness... adds to the character of the car..
I like the direct feel too, the engine braking reassures me. I was paying more attention on a few starts recently, and uphill may not be the worst case scenario for it. Accelerating away from lights downhill I observed the clutch slip and engine rev up to about 3000rpm, and it was not quick or efficient. Manually shifting from first to second in the same situation I can get it to shift at about 2000rpm and it seems solid in second gear at that point.

My daughter is a learner driver, and when she first started driving the Kona out of our driveway which is uphill but short, I noticed she was on and off the gas a bit, and the smell of burning clutch was strong, even though it only took 10 or 15 seconds to get out. So I think the clutch setup is prone to slip as power is applied/released in a way that manual clutches and torque converters don't experience.

If they have the necessary sensors installed, I believe they can get it to engage and shift much more naturally and efficiently.
 

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I like the direct feel too, the engine braking reassures me. I was paying more attention on a few starts recently, and uphill may not be the worst case scenario for it. Accelerating away from lights downhill I observed the clutch slip and engine rev up to about 3000rpm, and it was not quick or efficient. Manually shifting from first to second in the same situation I can get it to shift at about 2000rpm and it seems solid in second gear at that point.

My daughter is a learner driver, and when she first started driving the Kona out of our driveway which is uphill but short, I noticed she was on and off the gas a bit, and the smell of burning clutch was strong, even though it only took 10 or 15 seconds to get out. So I think the clutch setup is prone to slip as power is applied/released in a way that manual clutches and torque converters don't experience.

If they have the necessary sensors installed, I believe they can get it to engage and shift much more naturally and efficiently.
so, i used to drive a fiat spyder that was manual drive and as i learned to drive it, i ..uh..burnt out clutches..oops..inclined driveway very steep and lots of hills. So, in reading about the konas clutch slippage. should i worry I'll be burning through these(how expensive a repair?) as I get used to driving it? Still a hilly area but no longer a novice learner/driver
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I suggest you test drive one in the areas you are concerned about and judge for yourself.
There will be clutch slippage just as there are with any manual transmission. The KONA does a Good job in managing the clutch and keeps slippage to a minimum. there is a hill brake holder that will keep the car from rolling back on a start.. everything works together quite well.. IMO. Only you can decide..

so, i used to drive a fiat spyder that was manual drive and as i learned to drive it, i ..uh..rburnt out clutches..oops..inclined driveway very steep and lots of hills. So, in reading about the konas clutch slippage. should i worry I'll be burning through these(how expensive a repair?) as I get used to driving it? Still a hilly area but no longer a novice learner/driver
 

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lol.. don’t be so hard on the little engine that could.. It’s no LSx when it comes to performance.. but if you figure in the cost, power per cu in, 100K warranty, efficient Smooth running engine, responsive low end, oil jets for piston cooling, oil cooler, variable intact tract, twin scroll turbo, descent stock IC, CVVT on both intake and exhaust, etc ... Most of all consider the Intended application and audience.. More than adequate for its price and class of car.. IMO.

Well, that depends, How should it work? The Gamma is not a particularly great engine, all 32 variations of it.
 

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lol.. don’t be so hard on the little engine that could.. It’s no LSx when it comes to performance.. but if you figure in the cost, power per cu in, 100K warranty, efficient Smooth running engine, responsive low end, oil jets for piston cooling, oil cooler, variable intact tract, twin scroll turbo, descent stock IC, CVVT on both intake and exhaust, etc ... Most of all consider the Intended application and audience.. More than adequate for its price and class of car.. IMO.
I love the engine, it seems to be a great match for the taught lightweight body.
 

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Does that mean we cant modified the car to do more than 340NM?
I would assume clutch life and clutch holding power would be in question close and beyond that. There is a clutch rebuilder doing a $1,500-$1750 dual clutch set through tuners, with bring "your core" to the 3 week PLUS wait party. It is said to handle 400hp. It's in testing.
 

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I would assume clutch life and clutch holding power would be in question close and beyond that. There is a clutch rebuilder doing a $1,500-$1750 dual clutch set through tuners, with bring "your core" to the 3 week PLUS wait party. It is said to handle 400hp. It's in testing.
I would think their would be some programming involved if the characteristics of the clutch “grab” are changed. Things would be less expensive if the aftermarket becomes more involved..
 

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I would think their would be some programming involved if the characteristics of the clutch “grab” are changed. Things would be less expensive if the aftermarket becomes more involved..
Yes, I would think so. That should be happening right about now since there are a couple cars in testing or soon to be tested with these clutches.
 
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