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i have been watching this thread with much amusement as I have been through the FWD/RWD/AWD for the last 35 years.
i owned an 1986 OMNI GLH Turbo - ~150 HP and it wasn't bad but 195/50-15 tires were crazy big in '86
next was a 1990 Dodge Shadow VNT - a limited production run on the 2.2l turbo IV with 174 hp and about 210lb/ft torque - I could not keep a right front tire on that car.
when I ordered my 06 Dodge Magnum Hemi AWD the local dealer asked "why - we don't get much snow" my reply was driving performance. we get lots of rain and I drove several early Chrysler 300/magnum hemi and never felt as confident as in the AWD.
i remember an article by an Audi or might have been Saab mechanic in the late 80's stating that anything more than 200hp through the front wheels in a small car was unsafe.
i relaced by wife's boring FWD hatchback with the Kona 1.6t AWD and wholeheartedly agree that anything with more performance that the Kona N MUST have AWD. where do I sign the petition?
 
Here's something off the wall...

Would having just the FWD version allow Hyundai to meet some homologation / FWD racing class? I dunno...some SEMA, NASA, SCCA, etc. (?)

Besides...sell something today and next year it has a bonus feature (that it should have had all along). ;)
 
Discussion starter · #27 · (Edited)
Big yes, but who is going to race the Kona when you have all the other options with far better aerodynamics. It is all about the Kona can't be the KING of the N cars with AWD. Some price, $1,400, the advantage of a better balanced car and better performing car in the corners is worth that X3. There is as many AWD buyers as there are FWD. I 110% disagree with people who say a Kona N AWD would not pull AWD--> Audi, VW, BMW, Subaru, Volvo, owners. Then add some Mitshu EVO owners who want a newer car and all the amenities.

With bolt mods we are talking a 425+ hp Kona N AWD car. With rods/pistons/headbolts/big turbo you will have a 600-800hp rocket.

Then you get the people who say you don't need AWD, FWD is just fine. ALWAYS coming from someone who never drove an AWD street racer. This stupid choice of not having an AWD option on the Kona N is from a company who puts a 2.5 liter turbo in the Sonata N-Line with FWD and and OPEN diff "Hyundai One Wheel Wonder" almost 300 hp going through ONE wheel. You can burn up your tires in about 2 hours with that stupid setup. All Hyundai had to do was put in a simpleton limited slip diff ($250 Hyundai price) like they did with the i20 N. They did not need the advanced eLSD in the N-Line that the N's have. Just plain stupid. The engineers must of be so pissed designing that car and going out testing it and all you get is wheel spin and axle tramp when $250 would of made the Sonota N-Line a good car with the addition of the basic $250 LSD.
 
Big yes, but who is going to race the Kona when you have all the other options with far better aerodynamics. It is all about the Kona can't be the KING of the N cars with AWD. Some price, $1,4000, the advantage of a better balanced car and better performing car in the corners is worth that X3. There is as many AWD buyers as there are FWD. I 110% disagree with people who say a Kona N AWD would not pull AWD--> Audi, VW, BMW, Subaru, Volvo, owners. Then add some Mitshu EVO owners who want a newer car and all the amenities.

With bolt mods we are talking a 425+ hp Kona N AWD car. With rods/pistons/headbolts/big turbo you will have a 600-800hp rocket.

Then you get the people who say you don't need AWD, FWD is just fine. ALWAYS coming from someone who never drove an AWD street racer. This stupid choice of not having an AWD option on the Kona N is from a company who puts a 2.5 liter turbo in the Sonata N-Line with FWD and and OPEN diff "Hyundai One Wheel Wonder" almost 300 hp going through ONE wheel. You can burn up your tires in about 2 hours with that stupid setup. All Hyundai had to do was put in a simpleton limited slip diff ($250 Hyundai price) like they did with the i20 N. They did not need the advanced eLSD in the N-Line that the N's have. Just plain stupid. The engineers must of be so pissed designing that car and going out testing it and all you get is wheel spin and axle tramp when $250 would of made the Sonota N-Line a good car with the addition of the basic $250 LSD.

AWD street racer? Are you serious? I prefer track cars that are designed to go fast around corners. Some of the best track cars I have drove have been FWD. The so called mini you bashed earlier is a great example of a track car; one that drives like a go kart. Any auto cross driver will tell you if your car drives like a go cart you are golden. You also don't want too much power on the car if you are racing it and it can't handle the power as you hit the corners. As for AWD vs FWD, AWD is a nice added bonus but there is more to a car ability to cornering at high speeds; it start with the suspension, frame rigidity, tires, overall vehicle power to weight ratio, etc...

Hyundai increased the frame rigidity by 30% on the Kona N; the suspension wasn't pulled from the Velsoter N for the Kona N - instead Hyundai created a new suspension system for the Kona N, summer performance PZero tires specifically designed for the Kona N, and rev matching with sports tranny to ensure you don't lose power as you get out of the corner, eLSD, Hyundai shaved weight off the front by 5lbs to provide unsprung weight for the Kona N and Elantra N drive axel.

The Kona N was designed for the track and hyundai backs that up by providing their customers the warranty even if they track their car. They didn't do AWD because if they did, the AWD system in your Kona wouldn't cut it for the true N model. Instead they would have spent more on fine tuning it to meet what they wanted and that cost would have been added to the car, not the $1400 like you think between the standard Kona that FWD and the AWD Kona. They would have probably spent millions on that AWD and that would have pushed the price of the Kona N into WRX GT pricing or higher and for a compact SUV that starts off at $20K that doesn't make sense for Hyundai. The Kona N at $35K is more reasonable and more inline with Hyundai pricing.

I like that your passionate about where you feel Hyundai failed with the Kona N and I see your point of view. I like that you are making a build using the 1.6t AWD and pushing that car.

I like the Kona N as designed and can't wait to track it at local AutoX events.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
AWD street racer? Are you serious? I prefer track cars that are designed to go fast around corners. Some of the best track cars I have drove have been FWD. The so called mini you bashed earlier is a great example of a track car; one that drives like a go kart. Any auto cross driver will tell you if your car drives like a go cart you are golden. You also don't want too much power on the car if you are racing it and it can't handle the power as you hit the corners. As for AWD vs FWD, AWD is a nice added bonus but there is more to a car ability to cornering at high speeds; it start with the suspension, frame rigidity, tires, overall vehicle power to weight ratio, etc...

Hyundai increased the frame rigidity by 30% on the Kona N; the suspension wasn't pulled from the Velsoter N for the Kona N - instead Hyundai created a new suspension system for the Kona N, summer performance PZero tires specifically designed for the Kona N, and rev matching with sports tranny to ensure you don't lose power as you get out of the corner, eLSD, Hyundai shaved weight off the front by 5lbs to provide unsprung weight for the Kona N and Elantra N drive axel.

The Kona N was designed for the track and hyundai backs that up by providing their customers the warranty even if they track their car. They didn't do AWD because if they did, the AWD system in your Kona wouldn't cut it for the true N model. Instead they would have spent more on fine tuning it to meet what they wanted and that cost would have been added to the car, not the $1400 like you think between the standard Kona that FWD and the AWD Kona. They would have probably spent millions on that AWD and that would have pushed the price of the Kona N into WRX GT pricing or higher and for a compact SUV that starts off at $20K that doesn't make sense for Hyundai. The Kona N at $35K is more reasonable and more inline with Hyundai pricing.

I like that your passionate about where you feel Hyundai failed with the Kona N and I see your point of view. I like that you are making a build using the 1.6t AWD and pushing that car.

I like the Kona N as designed and can't wait to track it at local AutoX events.
A properly setup AWD car will KILL a FWD car in the corners. That's why they banned AWD world wide when racing against FWD cars. In TCR racing, Audi and Subaru have to be FWD only, otherwise they would win 75% of the time since they are AWD. You could even have them not get a break on weight and in a tight course AWD would win 75% or more.

I had basically a 300+ hp full blown race car VW Scirrico 2,000lb with a 12 point roll cage on the street as a daily in non winter months. My Kona would wipe it ars in the corners.

As for Mini oh PLEASE. A track car. It is a short wheel base car of course it will be good in auto cross. I have raced a local tricked out Mini and I killed him in the corners. It was FWD and not an AWD. It would of been tougher for sure if it was AWD since they can dance through the corners where FWD even with a eLSD will just understeer. Because a tire can only grip 100% and you add steering and power and all you do is plow. We heard this many times in SavageGeese testing of the Veloster N at the Hyundai autocross events, he was complaining about excessive understeer. We saw it with the Kona N before release at an Asian race track where CLEARLY the Kona N was understeering all over the place. Even the driver was saying the ride height was killing him in the corners. Clearly eLSD's help a lot, but not like you seem to such up Hyundai's marketing. Granted, the Kona N still needs a lot of suspension work, It has carp for camber, even for the street. Too soft of main bushings, ride height is atrocious, and it needs a proper performance alignment on all 4 corners. The factory alignment setting are very much not setup for the track or a street racer. All that can easily be fix, but it needs to be fixed.

Then, unless it is on a smooth European race track normal mode would be a more proper dampening setup on our rougher American race tracks. I am sorry, you act as mr racer and you think setting up a proper car is so hard when "race car fundamentals 101" can be followed by ANY car and make even better handling then a Kona N car with ease. Your just impressed with a stiff suspension and Hyundai's marketing. You don't even consider how that ride high is a huge hindrance. Not saying it is a bad car it is just not setup very seriously in it's selling form. I have to laugh at what you say about my car as if can't preform to the Kona N's stock form. HP yes, handling, I think not. I would love to see my car vs a Kona N on a "shaker table" I bet mine would definitely come out the winner.
 
A properly setup AWD car will KILL a FWD car in the corners. That's why they banned AWD world wide when racing against FWD cars. In TCR racing, Audi and Subaru have to be FWD only, otherwise they would win 75% of the time since they are AWD. You could even have them not get a break on weight and in a tight course AWD would win 75% or more.

I had basically a 300+ hp full blown race car VW Scirrico 2,000lb with a 12 point roll cage on the street as a daily in non winter months. My Kona would wipe it ars in the corners.

As for Mini oh PLEASE. A track car. It is a short wheel base car of course it will be good in auto cross. I have raced a local tricked out Mini and I killed him in the corners. It was FWD and not an AWD. It would of been tougher for sure if it was AWD since they can dance through the corners where FWD even with a eLSD will just understeer. Because a tire can only grip 100% and you add steering and power and all you do is plow. We heard this many times in SavageGeese testing of the Veloster N at the Hyundai autocross events, he was complaining about excessive understeer. We saw it with the Kona N before release at an Asian race track where CLEARLY the Kona N was understeering all over the place. Even the driver was saying the ride height was killing him in the corners. Clearly eLSD's help a lot, but not like you seem to such up Hyundai's marketing. Granted, the Kona N still needs a lot of suspension work, It has carp for camber, even for the street. Too soft of main bushings, ride height is atrocious, and it needs a proper performance alignment on all 4 corners. The factory alignment setting are very much not setup for the track or a street racer. All that can easily be fix, but it needs to be fixed.

Then, unless it is on a smooth European race track normal mode would be a more proper dampening setup on our rougher American race tracks. I am sorry, you act as mr racer and you think setting up a proper car is so hard when "race car fundamentals 101" can be followed by ANY car and make even better handling then a Kona N car with ease. Your just impressed with a stiff suspension and Hyundai's marketing. You don't even consider how that ride high is a huge hindrance. Not saying it is a bad car it is just not setup very seriously in it's selling form. I have to laugh at what you say about my car as if can't preform to the Kona N's stock form. HP yes, handling, I think not. I would love to see my car vs a Kona N on a "shaker table" I bet mine would definitely come out the winner.
FYI...already said this before the 7 speed DCT by Hyundai without any reprogramming can already handle 300 whp. The 8 speed DCT can handle over 400 whp. The 8 speed is the better DCT.

As for AWD vs FWD; it is more the driver than the car platform that matters at the track. If someone is in experienced or a bad driver the platform won't matter all that much. If the driver isn't in the equation than I do agree that AWD is superior but like I said before it isn't just about the drive platform it is about all the other aspects of the car such as suspension, tires, frame rigidity, etc...

Comparing a lowered Kona AWD to a Kona N; a AWD Kona that is simply lowered without any other real improvements to the car suspension and frame rigidity than the N model will have the advantage. If the Kona AWD that is lowered got improvements beyond being lowered in both suspension and to the frame it would in deed beat the Kona N if it has as close the same amount of horsepower or more to the wheels.

I was going to do what you did to your Kona to my Elantra Sports. I stopped because I didn't want to drop $10K+ into a car that would still fall short of the Elantra N. I ended up with the Kona because of the deal I got, otherwise I would be in an Elantra N. I know the Kona N falls short of the performance compared to the Elantra but I like its quirkiness. I mean I get triple takes from people as I drive it. Everyone is like WTF as I drive the car in N mode.

One more thing about the Kona N; would you go and slam a Lambo Urus to get more performance out of it. I know I wouldn't and that is the same reason why I would leave the Kona N as it, because it is a SUV, not a hot hatch. The Hyundai hot hatch is the Veloster, not the Kona. The Kona is one of their two smaller SUVs / crossovers and should have ride appropriate height such as 6"+ ground clearance. I'm happy it doesn't have the ground clearance like my wife's Ascent which is almost 9" off the ground.

I also recommend watching this video from Throttle House: Veloster N vs Golf R vs Civic Type R Just a FYI the AWD car loses to the other two FWD cars.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
FYI...already said this before the 7 speed DCT by Hyundai without any reprogramming can already handle 300 whp. The 8 speed DCT can handle over 400 whp. The 8 speed is the better DCT.

As for AWD vs FWD; it is more the driver than the car platform that matters at the track. If someone is in experienced or a bad driver the platform won't matter all that much. If the driver isn't in the equation than I do agree that AWD is superior but like I said before it isn't just about the drive platform it is about all the other aspects of the car such as suspension, tires, frame rigidity, etc...

Comparing a lowered Kona AWD to a Kona N; a AWD Kona that is simply lowered without any other real improvements to the car suspension and frame rigidity than the N model will have the advantage. If the Kona AWD that is lowered got improvements beyond being lowered in both suspension and to the frame it would in deed beat the Kona N if it has as close the same amount of horsepower or more to the wheels.

I was going to do what you did to your Kona to my Elantra Sports. I stopped because I didn't want to drop $10K+ into a car that would still fall short of the Elantra N. I ended up with the Kona because of the deal I got, otherwise I would be in an Elantra N. I know the Kona N falls short of the performance compared to the Elantra but I like its quirkiness. I mean I get triple takes from people as I drive it. Everyone is like WTF as I drive the car in N mode.

One more thing about the Kona N; would you go and slam a Lambo Urus to get more performance out of it. I know I wouldn't and that is the same reason why I would leave the Kona N as it, because it is a SUV, not a hot hatch. The Hyundai hot hatch is the Veloster, not the Kona. The Kona is one of their two smaller SUVs / crossovers and should have ride appropriate height such as 6"+ ground clearance. I'm happy it doesn't have the ground clearance like my wife's Ascent which is almost 9" off the ground.

I also recommend watching this video from Throttle House: Veloster N vs Golf R vs Civic Type R Just a FYI the AWD car loses to the other two FWD cars.
[/QUOTE
Yes, I agree the driver makes a big difference. Yes, I would change the Lambo. Where the manufacture fails to address where I want a car to be, I will change it, if it is in my limited budget.

I watched the video, he gave use clues why and the Golf R is not setup from the factory as a all out corner slammer. It is a refined car that an older car guys can appreciate. We had a couple of Kona N owners who had Golf Rs and one said it was kind of lack luster or boring or something to that description. Well that's just parts and a track/street alignment away to wake the car up. I found that out when I drove a guy's Golf R at work, a tuned Golf R 425 hp, but stock suspension. My Kona out handles it with ease. And the owner was the first one to say that my car handled better then his in the Golf R in race mode. The Golf R's factory alignment has too much toe in front and rear and not enough camber front and rear. That car flew, but it did not handle right for that kind of HP I thought. It needed all solid bushings, lowerinng springs and a rear bar.
He now has a tuned Audi S3 with stock suspension that just pulled a 0-60 last night in 3.8 seconds on a draggy. I have not driven that car yet, but he says it handles better then his old Golf R.

The Kona is not an SUV or crossover. It is a hatchback. The only think that makes it a SUV/crossover is it's high subframes and high spring perch's. Otherwise it is a hatchback or at least mine is now. It would be nice to get it even lower like the Elantra GT N-Line. It would be interesting to see if the rack mounting points are in the same location. There is a very very chance that subframe would fit my Kona. Even if the rack mounting was a bit off I could TIG weld up ther correct mounting points for the rack. I am checking monthly for that car in my local area junkyards to see if I can find a subframe.
 
lol, you can always trust some video off of you tube to give you information that is in no way compromised by monetary gains, also i never thought of the veloster n as a hot hatch, weird i guess it is
 
I’ve driven a MK7 Golf R and had a MK7.5 GTI as my daily for a few years. I’d take my Kona N over either of them 10 times out of 10. The VWs are good performers but the driving experiences they offer are no where near as engaging or entertaining as the N products are.

At the end of the day that’s exactly what the N division is going for. They’ve said that their main mission is to make cars that are fun to drive and that they aren’t chasing lap times. If your main focus is times, then I’d look elsewhere…but if you’re like me and your main goal is to have as much fun while driving as possible nothing beats the N cars when it comes to the smiles per dollar ratio. They’re pure driving joy at an affordable price.
 
I was able to get through to the president of Hyundai Technical Center in Michigan and what appears to be a gentleman who is charge of car product planning. I was able to get through by voicemail, no response, of course. We need to lobby these guys. Most of us want an AWD Kona N NOT a 2WD Kona N. We need to get this across to them loud and clear. We need to get a large group of people together and get contact info and then we need to contact them all at once so they can't figure out a way to put a firewall up on the executives contacting pathway. Who's up for it??
Just trade up for the new corolla its AWD you may be more happy with that instead of a Kona N.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
No, I am just keeping my Kona 1.6T AWD as I am only 40 hp less and I have AWD and I think it handles better then a stock Kona N. And my car is paid off. 😀 I am going back and forth on a hybrid turbo, because over on the veloster.org site they are having turbo seal issues with the hybrids and my car is a daily that needs to be somewhat reliable.
 
Just trade up for the new corolla its AWD you may be more happy with that instead of a Kona N.
He needs a vehicle to tow a boat and I don’t think the Corolla will handle that duty. Also he keeps saying how his car handles better but never once did he state he drove a Kona N yet, especially a lowered one. Even if he drives one he won’t be honest because he is bias towards his modify Kona.

What I find interesting is that I keep hearing how all these parts on the 1.6t Kona aren’t available but they are. The engine in the Kona and Elantra sport are the same other than the ECU. Meaning there are parts available. Since his car is a daily driver he also has to ensure mods he does doesn’t impact long term drive ability. As for suspension items there is plenty out there.

He does need to be careful because the 7 speed DCT can only handle about 300lbs of torque and horsepower and when you hit those numbers the transmission burns up rather quickly. It gets better, as you add more power the transmission will heat up more easily when you tow or pull around heavier loads. Those gains are on a modified car with an updated code for the DCT. Otherwise it was around 280ish.

He also needs to ensure that the awd system can handle the additional power. There are so many things you need to watch and monitor, and I am sure he knows that and is why he taking the slower approach. Where as the N models people are already putting down 400hp because well they’re designed better from the factory.


As I say to each their own. The most important thing is that he enjoys his ride and I believe he really does.I know I love my N.

Hopefully EPA doesn’t get their way, if they do we would be like India where any mod on a car would be illegal even if the car is tracked. Making model like N more valuable for their ability to be performance oriented right out from the factory.
 
Discussion starter · #39 · (Edited)
Of course the Corolla can handle that duty, that is nothing for that car. Toyota knows a very very high # of people will tune this car and a higher percentage of people then the Kona N, I would be willing to bet. It's AWD, a mega plus over 2WD. A whole other league of people jump in then. Just as it would with a Kona N AWD. Towing 1,300 to 1,400 for a AWD sport hatch is nothing. You seem to think Yugo is building the GR Corolla AWD?

Plus, I think we all can agree the GR Corolla is kinda ugly, even when I like quirky cars. I would have to see one in real life.

As for handing better then a stock Kona N, **** yeh, not even the slightest doubt. I only will add .5% doubt on a lowered one to appease you. It's the same exact car, with the exception of ther N is a hair stiffer body wise. I am so killing proper weight distribution, it is not even funny. The Miata comes to mind on where a stock body rolling happy Miata can beat highly modified car just because of proper weight distribution. I am far closer to proper weight distribution nirvana, that you will never have, unless you load weight. And I have no problem loading weight to increase handling. Winning a drag race is so fleeting then hitting evey corner with a properly balnced car is so much better, and happens on every "sport corner".

As it sits the Kona N and 1.6T AWD Kona weight the same. I have 80% more semi-solid bushing that the Kona N doesn't have. I see you have no clue what that heavy battery is doing to your handling. Can you add all that, yes. You will also never be able to reduce the HP/TQ shear load on your front tire to increase grip that I have. A tire can only has 100% grip, you add steering and WOT in a tight corner and you get understeer. You put 40% power the the rear tires and you have increased grip to the front tires to increase speed through the corner. To bad I can't afford summer rubber every year and have to go Ultra High Performance All-Season tires, I would get even more grip.

As far as parts, I guess I don't get this comment. If you go on to Hyundai tuner sites and tuner aftermarket suspension company's around the world very few of the parts that will fit the Kona 1.6T are posted. Like you, I knew most should fit as Hyundai uses the same basic parts through out their models. I had a connection to a guy at Whitline USA before The virusBS where we went over blueprints of their parts. Whiteline AU said they doubted they would fit out of lack of trying and laziness. As I posted before, 95% of the parts for the Veloster N/i30N will fit my car as far a suspension. But every purchase was a gamble as some purchases did not come with a return policy. I am working on building my own an 300 cell EPA catted downpipe this winter as I have a TIG welder and can build my own. I am concerned on the hybrid Pure Turbo seal issue. 2 people having to pull the turbos twice so far within a month. Mine is a daily year round, makes me want to stick with just 280 and be done/semi reliable.

As I said before, you have zero knowledge on what the 7 speed transmission can take, ZERO. The wall can tell the same insightful info on what the 7 speed trans can take. We have 500hp Veloster's on 5 speed manuals that are the same size as Kona's manual section of the gearbox. Will it last 125,000 miles with that hp, no but 50,000 and not blow up at the 1,000 mark, most high hp modders are good with that. And kinda expected. We have a poster here that that has 500+ hp Kona that said zero issues with the 7 speed trans with the exception of the axles as we all know usually is the weak point on all "pushed" higher hp cars. He said the axles are good to 390 hp. He is 2wd and an AWD puts the hp/tq down to 4 points so there is additional buffer space for more hp/tq. Plus as I posted before I have seen the AWD front dif vs the 2wd front diff and the AWD diff is at least 25/30% more robust . The rear 1.6T rear diff is rated to 900 ftlbs of tq by the manufacture. So the transfer case is the only issue no one so far knows of. 325hp/340tq everything seems good so far from a guy who drag races it semi weekly. I hope the rods hold up. We had Sixth owner who had 425 hp on a stock 1.6T block last for a couple months without blowing up and then he de tuned and sold it.

I assume the German designers used the Golf R's transfer case as a "known guide" and maybe downsized it a bit, we will never know. At least the Kona was full designed by VW/AUDI/BMW engineers, and they always build in extra robustness a tad more then Asian engineers.

Like I said before, if the "better half" was not there. That is why I had a semi slow meticulous build, plus I am limited to slow build on "performance $" I would already be driving a 400/450 hp Kona AWD 2 years ago. All self built, as I don't need the dealer to put my suspension in like some people do. The only thing I would leave to the pros is the tune and installing a new dual clutch that the mechanic has had at least 5 dual clutch installs under his belt, unless I had a 3rd car to use on the latter. if the motor blows on my car, I buy a beater and rebuild my own motor as I already have about 10 sport/race motors under my belt.
 
Discussion starter · #40 · (Edited)
Just trade up for the new corolla its AWD you may be more happy with that instead of a Kona N.
Nope, I already have a killer car that's paid off, why bother. If a Kona N AWD would come out I would wait for a 30,000 mile used one. No need to rush, but that would never happen as Hyundai is too stupid. They are all into the EV rabbit hole, with no future power source to charge these cars. I can't comment anymore as I was banned for going political.

I came to this conclusion when I had to weigh out reliability of going hybrid turbo vs reliability and my car's present very high capabilities vs added hp/tq.
 
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