[capthat]

Hey all,

New to the forum and looking into possibly buying a Kona. Was really set on the Honda CRV EX, but with all of the oil dilution issues I've been hearing about, it makes me really hesitant on purchasing. Came across the Kona and like the styling, but much small cargo being a subcompact compared to the compact CRV.

Anyway, I was looking at the Limited trim, but had some questions. Anyone with the 1.6T have any oil dilution issues or issues since it's DI? I know with DI you get more carbon buildup, and seeing as how this car hasn't been around too long, it's hard to tell if any issues, but I haven't seen much during my research. Is the Turbo worth it? Saw I could get similar features with the SEL package and Tech package if I wanted the 2.0L engine.

Looks like a great car all around and leaning closer and closer to it, just wish it had a bit more cargo room and then I'd definitely be sold!

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[BlackBetty]

just wish it had a bit more cargo room

If you lower the boot floor and remove the foam tray, it makes a big difference for general cargo
A wheelchair fits now when it would not before for me, I just wish like the European cars, there was a place for the shelf to click into when not in use.
I am probably going to just remove it.

On the OIL dilution, nothing I have seen in 1000K (600'ish Miles)

Oil is still slightly golden and has not seemed to have any loss of oil on the stick, exhaust is still looking like new.

(I came from a 1.4L TwinCharged VW Engine that before being replaced would burn 1L /1000K (32Oz/600 Miles) of oil and have slight dilution, plus a bunch of carbon on the exhaust)

The 1.6T in this is a really nice engine so far.
If you run the right oil, I doubt you will have an issue, this engine is in a huge amount of Hyundai models.

 

[Bebop]

@capthat

Looked at the HRV? It doesn't have DI engine and more space than the Kona.

 

[capthat]

@capthat

Looked at the HRV? It doesn't have DI engine and more space than the Kona.

I just compared and does look like a little more cargo room and leg room for back seat passengers, but it's hard to beat Hyundai's features that come standard. Right now I have 2010 Forte, and although it was a cheap car when I bought it new, it has some standard features that surprisingly weren't on other cars that were similar. I get that Hyundai might not hold the value of a Toyota or Honda, but it's hard to pass up, and I plan on keeping it for a while.

 

[Bebop]

The 2019 HRVs are coming out in about a week. Check the features again then decide.

 

[Sarkus]

The 2.0l in sport mode is like a whole different car. I checked it out extensively on a long drive yesterday and didn't see any noticeable loss in fuel economy. I get why so many people go for the turbo engine, but given the DCT limitations (in some situations) I'd strongly suggest people at least test drive the 2 when they shop the Kona.

 

[JR KONA]

Looked at the HRV? It doesn't have DI engine and more space than the Kona.

No Honda for me. Didn't care for how we were treated. They really gave us the impression they didn't want to deal. I asked for the invoice price, which they were reluctant to provide. In fact when the salesman went into the office to get the invoice price printed, his sales manager started yelling at him and became very animated. I could hear the conflict nearly 25 yards away. Never got to see the invoice price and was told they didn't make anything on the vehicles by the salesman. Of course, this was a bunch of dung and sales ploy. I bought an Acura Type-R once and they didn't want to deal either. I was told, "the price is the price!" So I've learned a lesson, that's to stay out of Honda and Acura dealerships.

My brother-in-law worked for Honda in Marysville, OH. So I've got a little inside information on how they operate.

Of course this is just one dealership and not a primary example of all but it's enough for me to stay away.

As far as the HRV, it depends on what packages you opt for. I won't have a CVT transmission and the engine is a 1.8 naturally aspirated VVT engine. Below is a direct quote from Car and Drive on the engine and drive train;

Slow, noisy, and unrefined, the HR-V’s four-cylinder engine won’t satisfy your inner street racer, and the CVT exacerbates the engine’s incivility.

You can read the complete review at this link;

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...and-transmission-review-car-and-driver-page-2

They don't even make a comparison to the Hyundai Kona on their web site, which is one of it's chief rivals.

https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/car-comparison?anchor=47764&competitors=45645,46551,44958:wink:

Fuel mileage isn't as good as with the 2.0 or 1.6T Hyundai Kona. Biased, yes I own a Hyundai Kona Ultimate over the Honda HRV for good reason.

 

[Mainia1]

I did not mind the 2015 CVT Honda Fit I received to drive for 2.5 months when my 2009 was stored in my garage waiting for the airbag recall. BUT, I would destroy a CVT in a couple of years the way I drive, not to mention wanting to tow a small boat that my 2013 Elantra GT did very well. Once off warranty a new CVT is about $5,500 to $6,500 out of YOUR pocket. I could see 2 to 3 CVTs in the drive train warranty period. What do you think they would do on # 2, let alone #3? Nope no CVT for this guy. Now then there is the new Civic 1.5 T Sport with CVT, I assume that is more robust. Still These things need to have a oil cooler and a spin on oil filter designed into them .

 

[capthat]

Yeah I've been skeptical of CVTs. I spoke to my local mechanic and he did say that some companies make them better than others, and that it's really important to change the fluid in them more regularly.

I was also reading that brands like Toyota in the new Camry have the 8 speed, and they had a lot of issues with the tranny deciding when to shift, and it was all jerky. I feel like car makers right now are stuck between transitioning to the CVT which seems to be hit and miss, and having a crazy amount of gears to try to make the cars more fuel efficient. Regardless, with all of the electronics and everything in cars these days, it doesn't seem like they are as reliable.

 

[JR KONA]

One of the additional problems with most transmissions, including the CVT is; you can't even drain the transmission fluid and renew it without dropping the pan or the transmission itself. There are no provisions for a dipstick to check the level or to top off if needed. Most transmission are now sealed from the factory. Not like it was several decades ago. It takes a trained auto mechanic to preform the maintenance.

Like MAINIA1 and I have already stated, "there's no room for a CVT in my garage."

 

[Matt]

The 2.0l in sport mode is like a whole different car. I checked it out extensively on a long drive yesterday and didn't see any noticeable loss in fuel economy. I get why so many people go for the turbo engine, but given the DCT limitations (in some situations) I'd strongly suggest people at least test drive the 2 when they shop the Kona.

I'm a prospective buyer, looking exclusively at the 2.0 AWD because I'm not feeling good about the DCT, but believe the Kona is the best modern car for me. I was unaware of a sport mode! How is it? What does it effect?

 

[JR KONA]

Maybe you need to look at this video. There are many more advantages to the DCT then in a standard transmission. I believe it will become a standard component in most every vehicle in the near future. However Honda has opted for a CVT (constant velocity transmission), which complex, expensive and trouble for owners all the way around.lain:

Sport mode changes ECU settings, shift points accelerator and throttle body response and doesn't effect the suspension as it has no magnetic suspension.:smile:

Mahalo and happy motoring.

 

[Bebop]

I traded my CVT HRV for the Kona. I had no problem with CVT for 50K miles. I have heard bad things about DCT too. After 3k+ miles I have not experienced any of the negative issues. If people have not driven a manual before, the DCT might feel a little odd at first. Both CVT and DCT transmissions have matured. I have no issue with either one in my car.

Kona is a better built car, but I do missed the extra space of the HRV. This is my first Hyundai. Lets see if it will be as reliable as my past Hondas?

 

[Mainia1]

One of the additional problems with most transmissions, including the CVT is; you can't even drain the transmission fluid and renew it without dropping the pan or the transmission itself. There are no provisions for a dipstick to check the level or to top off if needed. Most transmission are now sealed from the factory. Not like it was several decades ago. It takes a trained auto mechanic to preform the maintenance.

Like MAINIA1 and I have already stated, "there's no room for a CVT in my garage."

So far I have changed 2 cars transmission fluids that were sealed from the factory. 2014 Rav4 ATF pumper that's my wife's car and our tow vehicle for a small boat. I added a trans cooler and did a 100% fluid exchange and added Redline D6 ATF. This crossover was a lease return from upstate New York and from a women. It had 19,000 or 20,000 on it when we bought it. It was show room condition as far as interior and was had no signs of any "soccer mom use" or hauling stuff. When I drain the horrible Toyota WS ATF that was black in a bucket and some of the worst ATF I have ever smelled in my life. I got sick from draining it in my garage. Remember I did this a lot in my hobby Audi repair shop on many badly kept Audi's. This ATF was burn and spent at 21,000 miles. ( WS is a cheap semi synthetic ATF that works if there is a ATF cooler, (like all Toyota trucks have and most all Lexus have) anything else in the Toyota line up good luck. WS CAN NOT take any stress or heat without degrading. Add that to a list on sub-standard sub-frame paint/high iron ( massively accelerated rust/oxidation), sub-standard anti-corrosion on bolts and nuts. A three year old Toyota and Lexus under carriage in Minnesota salt, looks like a 15 year old Honda run in the same scenario. I digress.


Then there was my 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT that I changed over to Redline D6. This one was far easier then the Toyota. Some Toyota's have low ATF right from the factory and it is found out in cold areas like Canada and Minnesota since ATF expands and contracts with the temperature. It is seen on the forums, trans slipping on a new COLD cars. So Toyota can't even get their trans fluid level right. Toyota has new tools to do this leveling but this tool set up is made for dealers or shops to do the leveling HOT. There is a tedious way to do this cold and you need NO $$$ TOOLS to do it right. You just need a high end scan temp tool or a $29 laser temp gun. Also some Toyota's have a blinking light on the dash when the cold trans gets to the 114 deg ATF setting point to find level. I did this and got close and like many others has some slip when cold. (did this in mid winter in Minnesota). Added 1 qt and the problem was gone. It really is no big deal, it just takes some time researching multiple different peoples quests on youtube to build your knowledge on the process, and downloading Toyota's process on cold fluid leveling that every dealer and person does when doing it the old way (cold car) before their hot leveling tools.


CVT's need a trans cooler and a "spin-on " filter to do it right.


.

 

[WestCanMan]

Sport mode changes ECU settings, shift points accelerator and throttle body response and doesn't effect the suspension as it has no magnetic suspension.:smile:

Mahalo and happy motoring.

Canadian models also have an ECO mode, for those who are REALLY miserly about fuel economy.

 

[JR KONA]

I thank you for saying so. The US models don't but since our fuel economy is quite good, I suppose it wasn't needed.

CVT's need a trans cooler and a "spin-on " filter to do it right.

I agree but I can't bring myself to own a vehicle with a CVT transmission. I'd like to see the procedure for servicing the DCT in the Kona I don't know if there is a service manual available yet? Most Hyundai DCT Transmission service intervals are 80K miles.:smile:

 

[cmllr]

The 2.0l in sport mode is like a whole different car. I checked it out extensively on a long drive yesterday and didn't see any noticeable loss in fuel economy. I get why so many people go for the turbo engine, but given the DCT limitations (in some situations) I'd strongly suggest people at least test drive the 2 when they shop the Kona.

I'll agree with this statement as well, it is impressive how much of a change there is just by pushing that little button.

 

[JR KONA]

Thanks for the comment.

but given the DCT limitations

I'm not sure I understand what are referring to as; limitations. There are a ton of benefits and I see virtually no downside to the DCT transmission. It works well, with no driveline snatch and no engagement or disengagement issues. Just really clean, quick and precise shifting. As soon as you take your foot off the brake the clutch engages smoothly, without any hesitation.:smile:

Now I haven't driven a 2.0 but I'm sure it operates just like other automatic transmissions would. I think you'd be very surprised as to the function of the DCT. It acts no different then our Genesis G80 in operation.:smile:

 

[Sarkus]

The DCT isn't the ideal transmission in certain situations was all I'm saying. I've already seen web reports of people with DCT Kona's getting the overheated transmission warning light when driving in slow heavy traffic. It will get hot just crawling along like that and the conventional six speed automatic doesn't have the same issue. You can adjust your driving style to compensate, but it's still not ideal.

When I was researching my next car I came across this three part video from a reviewer in Australia about the pros and cons of the current DCT's. It's worth watching.

 

[JR KONA]

Thank you, I have seen several videos on the subject also. I believe there can be disadvantages, however I also believe those who are having trouble are driving the Kona as they would with a regular automatic transmission. The software which controls the engagement of the clutches senses braking and accelerator movements.

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/hyundai-kona-towing-with-the-dual-clutch-transmission . A similar good read from the same individual.

The Kona is rated to tow 1300kg (max) for the 1.6 turbo petrol engine with seven-speed dual-clutch transmission (DCT). A box trailer to the toungue is likely to be less than half that, it's a very conservative towing.

What you need to watch with DCTs is riding the clutch. Obviously the clutch is automated in a DCT, and therefore what you need to avoid is inching forward (ie - at a speed that is so low it does not allow the clutch to engage properly in 1st or reverse).

If you’ve driven a manual you know what I mean. There is a (slow) speed below which you need to start to slip the clutch of the engine will start to labour and eventually stall. With the automated clutch in the DCT, at these slow speeds the computer automatically intervenes by slipping the clutch to stop the engine laboring. This is what you need to avoid.

Making the clutch do this under load is especially a bad practice (the key-word here is 'under load'. Think: trailer-gravity-hill). This scenario places additional load on the clutch and generates excessive heat, which shortens the life of the clutch. It's not a design defect any more than riding the clutch in a manual and killing it prematurely is a design defect.

These comments only pertain to inching forward (or in reverse) at a speed so low it does not allow the lowest gear to engage fully. You can drive normally in a 1.6 Turbo Kona all day long with a 1300kg trailer behind, in traffic, no problem. Normal takeoffs in traffic - hill starts, etc. - are also no problem. I strongly advocate the use of the vehicle's 'auto hold' function to make those hill starts easier.

This powertrain has been deployed for years (in Veloster, Tucson and i30). It’s robust and reliable. As long as you are aware of the clutch operation at low speed, towing a trailer is a non-problem.

So unless you plan on reversing the trailer up a steep driveway under walking pace, or effectively riding the clutch in traffic, you’ll be fine. If you do have a steep driveway that is impossible to get up without slipping the clutch (for example) then I think an alternative vehicle with a conventional auto transmission will be more suitable (the 2.0-litre Kona has that). Conventional autos are far more robust in the context of inching forward under load.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
John Cadogan

So in retrospect, most all of the problems connected with the DCT are user generated. Knowing these facts can eliminate any issues for the owner. We have experienced none of these issues and the DCT drives nearly identical to a regular automatic with more enhancing traits.